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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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Well, there's a pretty good resemblance between the runic form of thorn and the traditional style of Thor's hammer, Mjollnir.
 
These are Wiki pictures. And the Wiki article on the rune says "By extension, it was also associated with the Germanic giant-killer Thor/Donar and his hammer Mjollnir."
Funnily enough, the rune is also called Thurs, "Giant", so Thor (as in Thursday) seems to have the same name as his adversaries. Very hunter-equals-the-hunted.
I didn't digest the whole article, but take a look at the Gothic alternative to the rune.
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While we're here, Wiki says "Mjøllnir simply means "crusher," referring to its pulverizing effect... related to English meal, mill and miller... Latin malleus "hammer", from which English mallet derives...
An alternative theory suggests that Mjøllnir might be related to the Russian word Ð¼Ð¾Ð»Ð½Ð¸Ñ (molniya) and the Welsh word mellt (both words being translated as "lightning"). This second theory parallels with the idea that Thor, being a god of thunder, therefore might have used lightning as his weapon."
What with maul/mall/mell/melée as well, I think the balance falls on the 'hammer' side, with the 'lightning' sense deriving from that, if anything.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Does Φ represent God, a combo of G + O + D, or am I talking cod(swallop)? |
Now that is the most intriguing idea I have heard in a long time! Very interesting Hatty!
Speaking of. I have recently noticed by the proximity of q with p in the English Alphabet -- though I expected the two letters ought to have been the other way round.
But now we see that o is right there on the other side. o p q . What might it mean? All variations on the Phi symbol?
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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So thorn = Thor-en = pertaining to, being/becoming/making (like) Thor?
As for dividing, the rune resembles a (rose) thorn and is, of course, sharp. But the essence of Thor is that he exists on the cusp of the civilised world and the encroaching Giants.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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Well I've just been thinking about Christ's "Crown of Thorns" and the possible double meaning.
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Wireloop
In: Detroit
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Well I've just been thinking about Christ's "Crown of Thorns" and the possible double meaning.
That ties in with the paganism/Christianity thing! There seems to have been quite a cross-over between hammer and cross artefacts, if archaeological finds including amulets are correct. Makes sense of course to wear a protective device symbolising power though the general view seems to be this was "in response to Christians". |
I go away to make a ham sandwich and when I return everything is forgotten! ; )
The Hebrew word for a thorny-thicket is cebak, the root of which is cabak which means 'interwoven'.
"Then Abraham lifted his eyes and looked, and there behind him was a ram caught in a thicket (cebak) by its horns. So Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it up for a burnt offering instead of his son."
The 'crown of thorns' identifies Jesus as the sacrifice which Abraham performed on his only son Isaac to establish the covenant. God sacrificed his only son (the Lamb/Ram of God)--get it?
You see, look at the wording here:
"The soldiers led Jesus away into the palace (that is, the Praetorium) and called together the whole company of soldiers. They put a purple robe on him, then wove together (Greek: pleko) a crown of thorns and set it on him."
The greek word pleko means interwoven, just like the Hebrew word cabak.
The author is drawing our attention to the fact that Jesus is the Ram caught in the Thicket. Whose sacrifice establishes the 'New' covenant.
Isaac is the 'lamb' of the sacrifice.
Jesus is the 'lamb of god'.
The sacrifice of Isaac ratifies the covenant.
The sacrifice of Jesus ratifies the covenant.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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Yes. But is the THORN a reference also to Phi?
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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In Hebrew thorn is 'kots'...definitely a "cutting" word. Which ties in with division.
The way children draw the sun, a circle with spikes sticking out, is like a crown. Is it a coincidence that son and sun are so close? (Is there any connection between Phi and son/sun as in Latin filius and ilios, Greek for sun)?
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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| But is the THORN a reference also to Phi? |
What, the Logos, that finest of all cutting implements that divides everything (every atom?) into Creation?
Thor is the Son of Odin, of course.
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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| Are there any dialects in the UK where people say "yous"? My mother-in-law is from rural prairie-land and she says "yous". |
I hear it and use it a lot, but I dunno if it's a dialect thing. Maybe Scousers? Maybe American telly.
Does anyone know, were "y" and "v" ever subject to flexion, like "p" and "f"?
"Yous" does bear a resemblance to "vous". |
Y = U = V, but it's pretty hard to make one sound instead of the other.
Compare aves where the V is really a U, but we pronounce it with a fricative V. It's much easier to see this being learned from books than an everyday word like you, but this thread started with just this suggestion -- and I have long maintained that the effect of literacy has never been fully appreciated.
Look at J, too: Y/I versus DG pronunciations can only be the result of literacy?
Wadya mean by flexion of P and F? I know P = F as in pipe/fife, Persian/Farsi, pisces/fish, pine/fir... but I presume you mean something like F = V, as in fox/vixen, wife/wives, roof/rooves... and I can't think of any P/F examples.
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Wireloop
In: Detroit
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The 'sun' is not light, but a manifestation of its glory.
A 'son' is not the father, but manifestation of his glory.
All solar deities are male, even the platonic 'Good' (God) is a masculine word. I have proposed that the cognates between 'sun' and 'son' are due to the primal similarities in their purpose.
Jesus, acting as Logos, represents the Father through his sonship.
In Hebrew:
Godel (cognate: God, Good) = greatness, powerful, growth
Tson (cognate: son) = sheep, flock
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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| Also a divided circle, horizontal, this time: Θ θ |
Look at eth, also a TH sound: another divided 'circle', a thorn/capital D with a horizontal stroke: Ã.
The lower case is topographically the same as theta θ, too: ð
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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Off topic right now but....
Pine
Fir
I don't supose what is meant here is actually...
Pyre
Fire
?
The idea being that Pine trees are good for burning. The needles do catch fire very quickly (my god they go up like fireworks when they have been dried). Helps to get any fire started.
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| DPCrisp wrote: | | Wadya mean by flexion of P and F? |
I just meant like pater/father.
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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| Pine Fir. I don't supose what is meant here is actually... Pyre Fire? |
I stuck my neck out a little on that one on the basis of the R = N rule.
I thought they'd say Latin pinus referred to pins/needles... or pinnate feathers... but they say it means "fat, sap, pitch"... all of which make as much sense as fire. Can we tell the order in which these associations arose?
OE pintreow refers to a tree of pins/feathers/sap/fire/pine, but furhwudu refers directly to the wood -- suggesting fire or resin (or fire resin) is the common denominator, pins and pinnas deriving, therefore, from the tree. (Furhwudu is attested "c.1300", which might well be English rather than OE, of course.) I agree, "fire wood/tree" has gotta be the front runner.
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DPCrisp
In: Bedfordshire
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| I just meant like pater/father. |
OK. I still can't think of any clear examples. You/vous, yo'/vos... might be the first and best one. (Notice that W [double U/V] in French is always "v", as if single V was for something else.)
V, F, P, B are mixed up a a lot in speech and in writing -- as the shapes of the letters no doubt reflect.
But V, U, W, Y, G are more interesting because they cover (at least) two domains unified only in writing. In terms of sound and meaning, guard should be pronounced ward {Technically, we must leave the door open for it to be the other way around, but I can't see it, myself.} but we are trained to see and say it as "ggard". And the linguists are therefore trained to see a (natural) shift in pronunciation.
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