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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Helen
HAL/HEL = SAL/SEL

Well, if "Hal" means "Salt" then "Helen" means "of salt."

Helen, therefore, is a woman of salt.
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Tani


In: Fairye
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Ishmael wrote:

Well, if "Hal" means "Salt" then "Helen" means "of salt."
Helen, therefore, is a woman of salt

Now we can all brainstorm about the possible implications of Homer's Iliad - the Trojan War - the general conflict/ hostilities between the Greeks and the Trojans, etc.

AND looks what creeps up again: Troy is in today's Turkey - Catal Huyuk is in Turkey...
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Oakey Dokey



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Don't know how relevant this is but I'll mention it in case it springs up more links:

Battle of Troy.

One, King Priam, supposedly fled at the falling of Troy.

Destination: Northern Europe

New assumed name, Odin.

The northern king lineage has a few instances where a new king will assume a name of a god to make his kingship more legal or seem more great. There is supposedly an old and new Odin. The new Odin may just have been King Priam, the Persian fallen king.

Don't know the actual validity of this but it's a rumour/myth.

It also links in Helen and many of the strange correlations within the myths of north and Mediterranean.
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DPCrisp


In: Bedfordshire
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I've seen it said that, since D = Th and vowels are highly mutable, ODIN = ATHENA, both gods of war and wisdom (cf. Helen/Nehalennia). Now is that at the heart of the Saxon question or what?

Wick/wyck/wich/wych means a saltworks. Some say it means inlet or port, but that amounts to the same thing. It also means a village as in Roman vicus. Probably also connected to vik/weg/way/wake: viking, going about, leaving a wake, or traveling a (trade-)route (way).

I was just thinking about the Iceni. They say eye-key-knee or eye-see-knee. But if the 'e' is de-emphasized (and drop the Latin plural 'i'), it's like 'ickn-something', like Ickers, Ickners, Ickeners. Add a dash of poetic license and we get Wickers or Wickeners. They're from Norwich, right? North wich/wick. Iceni = Wick(ers) = salt makers.

"Many different spellings of the name of the road exist, from Ykenildweie in the time of Henry III to Ikenildwe and Icenhilde Weg. The connection with the tribe of the Iceni, Via Iceni, propounded by William Stukeley, has become venerated with age but is highly unlikely for philological reasons." See: The Icknield Way, Edward Thomas, Wildwood House Ltd., London, reprinted 1980.

Of course, Ykenildweie and Ikenildwe are pronounced Icknield Way.

Icenhilde Weg is interesting: hild(e) means battle. Hmm... could there be a road leading from Norfolk towards St Albans called Iceni Battle Way...? Let's see now...

Wicca, the pagan/magic religion, is the same as "wise"; which means "pliable", in the sense that being wise means knowing how to use the laws of Nature (including people) to bend a situation to your will. Doing magic simply means operating with -- being in harmony with -- the forces of Nature. Wicker is bent willow twigs. Wicker = Wicca.

But Wick/Wich is somewhere salt is produced... by wickers or wickeners, no doubt. Making and using salt is magic. (Salt is used in magic all over the place, including the Sumo ring.) Someone who can do it must be wise (a witch) -- in the same way that being able to draw a sword from a stone and anvil denotes a remarkable, magical status.

This circular connection must have started somewhere. Maybe the willows that like salt marshes are the pliable kind, or the bark is salty, or both -- hence "Salix"? (Yes, of course people tasted the bark, it's got salicylic acid in it.)
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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And now we can all brainstorm about the possible implications on
Homer's Iliad - the Trojan War - the general conflict/ hostilities between the Greeks and the Trojans etc
AND looks what creeps up again: Troy is in today's Turkey

I do not believe that Troy was in Turkey at all. I think the Acheans are Vikings.

On the subject of Troy, apparently, there is a city named "Trier" in western Germany that might make a good candidate. Its inhabitants claim it is the oldest city in Europe! I do wonder how certain we can be that these ruins are Roman in origin?

Of further interest, the word "Stadt" is associated with Trier.

Another link Monuments in Trier
An antique map: You could sail a fleet up this river!
A modern map: I told you it was a big river!

Oh...regarding pillars of salt...

As the Dead Sea recedes (apparently, the water level is lowering) it leaves standing above the water tall pillars of salt (these are actually in Utah) that once stretched from the sea floor to the original surface level. Is that a clue to the Biblical reference regarding Sodom? Interesting thing about Sodom too is that changing a couple of vowels and the word becomes Sodium.

What if the ancient word for "Salt Pillar" was "Helen?" A salt pillar "rises forth" from the sea. It reaches "toward the sun."

Interestingly....there is a place called "Helam" on the east side of the River Jordan.
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DPCrisp


In: Bedfordshire
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Helen... Salt... Dead Sea... Sodom... Soda... Alum... Al-Khemia... Black Land...

Of course, the other Dead Sea mineral product is bitumen.

And alum shale is compacted, black mud and burns for nine months because it contains oil.

They say alchemy is about transmuting base metals into gold, but was it originally about transmuting and exploiting minerals in general?

'Minerals' in a broad sense: sal ammoniac came from camel dung (more "black earth"?). They weren't averse to getting their hands dirty in obtaining these salts were they?

Alum has something to do with tawing leather. That's not so very different from preparing mummies, now is it?

My dictionary says of taw: "make hide into leather without tannin, esp. by steeping in a solution of alum and salt" and declares this an Old English usage. Ahh, an ancient alum shale industry...
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Jaq White



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Salt and healing

Further to Hal = salt; e.g. Haling, Pwllheli. according to http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Misc/Etymology.html
So if the a and e is so easily interchangeable, why can't we have them both together and make "healing"?
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Jaq White wrote:
Not sure which thread this should go on but I wondered if it had been pointed out that Hal = salt; e.g. Haling, Pwllheli. according to http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Misc/Etymology.html So if the a and e is so easily interchangeable, why can't we have them both together and make "healing"?

Very interesting.

I had previously pointed out that "H" and "S" seem to have been confused at some point (such that the two symbols were used for the same sound in two separate writing systems that were at some point combined).

Thus, "Hal" is "Sal" and "Hol" is "Sol." Heliocentric is the same as "Seliocentric."

This transforms the name of Helen to "Selen," making her a "woman of salt."

It also makes her name the same as that of the moon; that is, "Selena."

Now...I believe it was Mick who recently pointed out that the "a" ending is a feminization of a masculine root word. This suggests that the two lights of the sky were originally "Selen" and "Selena" or "Sol" and "Sola" or "Helios" and "Helia"...

...or just "Sol" and "Hel" and "Sola" or "Hela," the latter perhaps rendered later as "Helen."

Clearly, Helen, the "Woman of Salt," is the Moon. Her husband must be the Sun, "Sel" (or "Sol") and was the "Man of Salt."

Why is there no Man of Salt in mythology?
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Jaq White



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Ishmael wrote:
Now...I believe it was Mick who recently pointed out that the "a" ending is a feminization of a masculine root word. This suggests that the two lights of the sky were originally "Selen" and "Selena" or "Sol" and "Sola" or "Helios" and "Helia"...
...or just "Sol" and "Hel" and "Sola" or "Hela," the latter perhaps rendered later as "Helen."

Hellas is the Greek name for Greece isn't it? Both sea salt and rock salt were well known to the ancient Greeks who noted that eating salty food affected basic body functions. This led to salt being used medically. The healing methods of Hippocrates (460 BC) especially made frequent use of salt.

I was just looking up various sites I often use to see if I could find any reference to a Man of Salt and was bombarded with references to the Salt of the Covenant, which stems from a Biblical passage that relates to Jericho (- isn't Jericho the lowest (and one of the oldest) city(ies) on earth? Don't know if that is significant, but if that's where the Covenant of Salt stems from, and the Bible claims Jesus introduced the symbolism there, then I think it may be of some relevance)

Bible.org says:

"The Salt
The salt is the most significant of the symbols here. To see this let's take a look at the actions of salt and its uses in Scripture.

The Actions of Salt
(1) It is preservative. It retards spoilage and putrefaction.

(2) It seasons, gives flavor and makes food more palatable and enjoyable.

(3) It causes thirst. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Right? Not necessarily, you can feed him salt and then he will drink.

(4) It irritates. Did you ever get salt in a wound?

(5) It is a healing and purifying agent. It purifies.

Historical Background
(1) Salt was one of the most important staples and commodities of ancient times. It was viewed right along with wine and oil as a sign of prosperity.

(2) Because of the lack of refrigeration, meat would spoil almost immediately without salt.

(3) It was taken from the Dead Sea and dug up from marsh areas. This meant that sometimes it was impure and mingled with vegetable and earth substances. Salt from the Dead Sea was often mixed with gypsum and if in sufficient quantities, the salt would become alkaline and lose its salty character.

Uses of Salt in Scripture
(1) Leviticus 2:13 teaches us that under no circumstances were any offerings to be brought without salt. Without salt they were unacceptable no matter how sincerely offered, no matter what the sacrifice or the cost or how pure the motive (cf. Ezek. 43:24). It was the salt that made the offering or sacrifice acceptable because the salt spoke of God's covenant to save us through the person and work of Christ. Covenants in ancient times were ratified with salt. "

It goes on a bit but there are references to the Biblical "salt of the earth" etc.

With regard to healing, salt has been used in healing for centuries to treat wounds, fevers, respiratory problems and skin diseases. A balance of salt in the body is essential to wellbeing. Salt healings can take the form of a salt bath, smelling salts - inhaling steam from salt to ease respiratory problems and also a saline drip replaces fluid to sustain life, carries drugs through the body and cleanses impurities.

I'll keep looking for a Man of Salt in mythology and if I find anything, I'll post it.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Somewhere Oakey posted up an interesting little piece about oakapples (thingies created by wasps on oaktrees) and we tried to get a little discussion going about Druids having such great power thanks to their being able to cure otherwise fatal diseases. Anyway it didn't get very far but I thought this might jog a few elbows:
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Ancient Britons' war paint drafted in to help battle against disease
by Natasha Tian
The Scotsman, August 14, 2006

http://news.scotsman.com/health.cfm?id=1180862006
Woad, once used as war paint by ancient Britons to strike fear into the hearts of their enemies, could now be used in the battle against cancer.

Scientists have discovered that the plant Isatis tinctoria, is a rich source of an anti-tumour compound glucobrassicin (GBS), which is also found in broccoli and Brussels sprouts, and is believed to be especially active against breast cancer.

A recent paper from Dr Stefania Galletti's research team at the University of Bologna, Italy, found that woad contains 20 times more of the cancer- fighting compound glucobrassicin (GBS) than broccoli. Like its relatives, the woad plant uses the compound as a defence mechanism to ward off insect pests, releasing extra levels of GBS when damaged by chemicals or after physical injury.

Researchers have boosted the plant's output dramatically by puncturing its leaves to mimic wounds left by insects and hope the quantities obtained will be high enough to use in clinical trials.

A recent study found a significant correlation between increased brassica consumption and reduced levels of lung cancer chemicals in smokers.

Other research indicates GBS may act against breast cancer by flushing out derivatives of the hormone oestrogen. However, levels of the compound are quite low in vegetables such as broccoli and it is mixed with other substances, making GBS difficult to extract and purify for patients' use in clinical trials.

Woad might provide scientists with the first cheap, rich source of the compound, the research suggests.

Woad was used by tribes living in ancient Britain to colour their faces and bodies. Among them were the Iceni, led by Queen Boudicca, who went into battle against the Romans naked but painted blue.

The plant dye was highly prized in the Middle Ages but was largely replaced by cheaper, imported indigo in the 16th century.--

Online:
*Glucobrassicin enhancement in woad (Isatis tinctoria) leaves by chemical and physical treatments*Stefania Galletti, Jessica Barillari, Renato Iori, Gianpietro Venturi
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/112730122/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

---------------------

It will be interesting if it turns out that the Ancient Brits did not (as orthodoxy and the Romans think) fight naked and covered by woad because they were primitive but because they knew that all fabrics tend to promote wound infection and woad militates against it cf "releasing extra levels of GBS when damaged by chemicals or after physical injury".
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DPCrisp


In: Bedfordshire
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Yes, I'd heard that they used it coz it was antiseptic.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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This is potentially more important than one might think. The "woad-clad Brits" image clearly comes out of Victorian stereotypes of primitive tribes using "war-paint" when facing the Thin Red Line. Leaving aside the possibility that the "primitive tribes" were also using antiseptic (it all looks much too decorative according to my National Geographic back-collection for this to be likely) we have a very different picture of the Old Brits...the Thin Blue Line as we used to call ourselves.

After all, the very notion of "antiseptics" only came in via Lister and the Victorians...didn't it? Is it just a case of lucky trial-and-error, or does it betoken some grasp of germ-theory?
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Komorikid


In: Gold Coast, Australia
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A different spin on Helen

The word Helen may be the feminine version of Hellen, son of Deucalion (the Greek Noah) and the patriarch of Greek culture. Hellen was the leader of the Hellenes who became the Greeks. Hellas the Greek name for Greece means 'those of Hellen'.
The word Hellen/Helen is derived from el which goes back to the Sumerian/Akkadian language.

The word el/il means god. This is the root word for various Near East descriptors of god; El, Bar-el (Baal), Isra-el, El-ohim, El-oah, El-yon and other derivatives.

The H or S, if we can believe Ish, was a later addition to the root word in later languages. So Hel would be another name for god or a god not salt.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Komorikid wrote:
The word Helen may be the feminine version of Hellen, son of Deucalion (the Greek Noah) and the patriarch of Greek culture. Hellen was the leader of the Hellenes who became the Greeks. Hellas the Greek name for Greece means 'those of Hellen'.
The word Hellen/Helen is derived from el which goes back to the Sumerian/Akkadian language
.

Because l is cognate with r, and ll is pronounced as r in some languages today, might we conclude that Hellen = Heron?
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DPCrisp


In: Bedfordshire
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Re: A different spin on Helen
So Hel would be another name for god or a god, not salt.

Are you sure you can extricate one from the other, Komori? Couldn't Hel/Sel be the name of various gods and salt and tin? That would tell us something about the deep meanings of those words, but I'm not sure we can tell which came first. (There's something about Amun and sal ammoniac around here somewhere...)
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