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Arthurian Romance (British History)
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DPCrisp


In: Bedfordshire
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Could Ellen have a lunar connection?

Could Ellen/Helen have a less lunar connection?

Arras has given its name to the Iron Age 'Arras culture' that is characterised by square barrows and multiple burials often accompanied by grave goods, including chariot burials.

That's the odd lot in Yorkshire, innit? Somewhere I read the Parisii never amounted to anything, but I recall several maps of something-prehistoric-or-other having featuring that corner of Yorkshire as some sort of enclave: a law unto itself for most of history.

Iron Age burials? Very rare. Mostly Yorkshire, innit? Course, the recent sensational find of 4(?) bodies was in London.

Merury is Hermes. There might be some connection between Ermin Street and Hermes.

R = L. M = N. Helen, Ellen, Hermes and Ermin are all the same.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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To ninety-nine per cent of the population Arras is a First World War battle-site, ie up the road from Troyes. [The other one per cent associate it with 'behind the arras' from Hamlet, Arras being also a textile town.]

Arras is the place for tapestries and troubadours. True bards? Trou means hole. In a hole in the ground lived a hermit. Or in Hull.Or in a cave. [There's a North Cave and a South Cave just north of Ellerker in the Brough parish, it was doubtless a biggish place that dwindled once toll roads were introduced and lost its pre-eminent position on the route out of Hull. Cave = cellar in French]

perhaps we ought to be making a complete list of the connections between Yorkshire and Northern France.

We could start with Saint Germain, the name not only of a Parisian district but which litters the French countryside like Saint Germain-des-Angles -- angles or Anglais? -- in the Eure department. (Eure sounds the same as the Yorkshire Ure, cf. the Oise and the Ouse) and is famous for the Benedictine Bec Abbey or Notre Dame du Bec named after the stream running through the abbey (beck is another water word very familiar in Yorkshire). It is located in a valley half-way between Rouen and Le Havre in the commune of Le Bec Hellouin. Hellouin is said to be derived from Herluin the name of the abbey's founder.
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Hatty
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R = L. M = N. Helen, Ellen, Hermes and Ermin are all the same.

So Elmet could mean hermit?
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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In Greek mythology Helen/Ellen was the daughter of Zeus and Leda. In Yorkshire there's a village called Swanland coincidentally or not reinforcing the myth. (We've discussed swans somewhere or other; did anyone mention that swan in French is cygne, almost the same word as cyn, i.e. king?) The village website informs the would-be visitor that to enter the village will necessitate climbing a hill from any direction.

Swanland is squeezed in between West Ella and North Ferriby which is directly across the Humber from South Ferriby and as its name suggests is a ferry town. One of the ways a hermit could earn his crust was being a ferryman.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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I wonder which landmass has more placenames with evident connections to Greek mythology: Greece or Britain?
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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We could start with Saint Germain

I didn't spot any Yorkshire Germains in your account.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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The village of Winestead has a church dedicated to St. Germain. Winestead is on the meridian.
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Mick Harper
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Let's have a full report of places 'on the meridian' just in case it turns out to be a Michael Line.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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Continuing the saintly theme, a church in York is dedicated to St. Denys. A 'holy well' in Bowes near Barnard Castle inscribed with the name of Saint Farmin, i.e. Fermin. No-one has an explanation for the well's dedication.

St. Saturninus, bishop of Toulouse, who sent forth saints Fermin and Dennis, is called St Cernin in Navarre (where he has a well). He was supposedly martyred by being dragged through the streets of Toulouse by a bull, the same fate as St Fermin's. The bull-cult is associated with underground caves where initiates were thought to carry out their mysterious rites. All very (h)ermetic.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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All this business with bulls makes one wonder if St Fermin aka Cernin is the same as the horned 'Celtic' god Cernunnos or Herne.

Maybe Ermin Street was the 'hermits' way'. To the east of Herne Bay on the north Kent coast is a hermitage at Minnis Rock between Reculver and Margate with three entrances and which measures nine feet deep. (Minnos or Minos? Cretan bulls?). I wonder what else was along this stretch of coast which, like Holderness, has been affected by constant erosion.

To trace places along the meridian we'd need someone like Keimpe who has the knack of drawing lines on maps.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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Thorney Abbey in Cambridgeshire is dedicated to Saint Fermin. Thorney lies on the meridian about eight miles east of Peterborough. Not far then from Ermin Street. Wiki says it was part of the Isle of Ely supposedly meaning 'eel island'. Ellen's Isle?
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DPCrisp


In: Bedfordshire
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Thorney Abbey in Cambridgeshire... Wiki says it was part of the Isle of Ely supposedly meaning 'eel island'. Ellen's Isle?

Hmm... Champs-Élysées... Elysian Fields = Isle(s) of the Blessed. What does the Isle of Ely have to do with this?

{Hmm... confusion between islands and plains, eh? Both insulated, demarcated. Cf. Atlantis "island" conversey.}

Elysium = Irish, by the L = R rule?

We usually hear the Underworld echoed in Anglesey, Menai, them little Welsh islands... Ireland.

Did I dream it, or does legend have it that Ireland has no trees? Isn't it therefore a field or plain?
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Rocky



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Hatty wrote:
Anyone know what "Paur Ifa" might mean?

"Low pafltire"...er... low pasture, apparently.

How can Par-Issi be equated with low pasture? Nothing surprises me any more (though I was a bit taken aback when checking on the genealogy of the Percys, just to see if they were Paris-related, to find that the village of Perci in Normandy means apparently Persia-cum coz they'd been soldiering or sojourning in Persia...).


There is an old map of Britian, apparently attributed to Ptolemy. It has a place called "Orduices Parisi" on it. Or maybe it is two places, one called Orduices and one called Parisi. It's hard to tell. On this map Britain is kind of shaped like a backwards Z. There's a picture of it in a book I have, but I can't find it online. I think on a modern map, Orduices would be somewhere in the middle of England.

According to orthodoxy Orduices is related to pastoral life:

As some of our modern philologists seem inclined to repudiate Stukeley and to disclaim any connection between our national or local names and words and the Phoenician or Celtic language, it may be proper to remark, that the term Hycsi remained in Worcestershire in the time of the Romans, and, as Stukeley informs us, "even to the time of the venerable Bede." The natives of Worcestershire were called "Huicui to which Orduices and Vigornienses is synonymous." All these three words denoted shepherds or persons addicted to a pastoral life, such as the Hycsi in Lower Egypt and the ancient Canaanites in Abraham's time are known to have been.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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Champs-Élysées... Elysian Fields = Isle(s) of the Blessed. What does the Isle of Ely have to do with this?

Something about roads slithers through my mind. Or rather the absence of. There were no highways according to historians once the "Roman" roads deteriorated. Wales is linked with the building of the legendary Elen's Causeway and Fenland causeways. Insula Eliensis or the island of Ely was self-governing, a sort of island unto itself, similar to Glastonbury perhaps.

(That string of Eleanor Crosses, were they set up at pre-existing stopping places marked by waymarker stones?)
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Boreades


In: finity and beyond
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Pulp History wrote:
On the point of London - If the Latinised version of the name is Londinium (with ium being the noun ending) then the name was Londin. Bede refers to it as Lundonia (again Lundon with 'ia' ending). Lundenberg (AngloSaxon Chronicle)..... again, it's ALL the same name. So, if this is correct then London was previously called, er, London...... hey, it must be Celtic in origin then!! - BUT according to the Oxford Dictionary of Placenames 'don' is OE for hill??


You need to watch a few more films with Cockney Geezers in them. It's pronounced Lundin.
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