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Questions Of The Day (Politics)
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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Mick Harper wrote:
Mind you, since his message would be pretty unpopular with the British electorate if they ever did get to hear it in all its glory, that might be no bad thing for the Coybynistas.

What message are we not hearing? Corbyn seems quite aloof from the fray though presumably the opposite when he's out of the media's range.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Ahhh worrying times.... Populism is in the air. Brexit, Trump, the Far Right....

What is to be done. Yep it's the Peoples Vote!!

The people's vote is needed to finally settle the idea of UK's relationship with Euroland, which sounds a whole lot like the point of the first vote, but no... the first vote was flawed.

In short the justification of the Peoples Vote is that some dodgy claims were made, and some expenses were not as they seemed in the first vote, and some folks had not grasped the issues.....ie exactly what has happened at every general election ever.

So what will the Question be?

A cunning inversion? Leave v Remain??

The more cunning.. Do you want to stay in (err) if no deal were to be agreed?

A multiple choice on all possible outcomes?

Populism is not confined to "Others"...... it is a failure to accept the democratic process........by a rousing call to the will of the People.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Ahhh worrying times....

I think you mean 'exciting times', don't you?

Populism is in the air. Brexit, Trump, the Far Right....

In the air? All three crashed firmly to earth sometime ago.

What is to be done. Yep it's the Peoples Vote!!

Not populism though, that's what the other side go in for.

The people's vote is needed to finally settle the idea of UK's relationship with Euroland, which sounds a whole lot like the point of the first vote, but no... the first vote was flawed.

Yes, that's what's wrong with plebiscitary democracy.

In short the justification of the Peoples Vote is that some dodgy claims were made, and some expenses were not as they seemed in the first vote, and some folks had not grasped the issues.....ie exactly what has happened at every general election ever.

Yes, that's what's wrong with representative democracy.

So what will the Question be? A cunning inversion? Leave v Remain??

Since the People's Vote is advocated solely by Remainers, this is true.

The more cunning.. Do you want to stay in (err) if no deal were to be agreed?

Won't it be more in the nature of "Do you think we should have constant referendums until the right outcome is achieved?" © the Scottish National Party.

A multiple choice on all possible outcomes?

Not a bad wheeze in the age of the internet. Of course with 48% (or whatever it is nowadays) voting for not leaving at all, the vote about how we're leaving will be, as the saying goes, 'split'.

Populism is not confined to "Others"..

I think populism is confined to others. It is like "Are you promiscuous?" "No, I'm not, but anyone who has more sexual partners than I do, is." © Mother Theresa and so on upwards.

..... it is a failure to accept the democratic process........by a rousing call to the will of the People

Britain didn't get where it is today by rousing calls. We won't even realise we have Brexited in a few years. Future pub quiz question: What do the letters EU stand for?
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Corbyn keeps on cocking up this antisemitism thing. He should learn from the Swedes, that is the Swedish Democrats (sic), the far Right facists who will shortly, after this weekend's elections, hold the balance of power. Yep the fascists have anti racist policies and chuck out the odd loud mouth.

What does Corbyn do? He gets his knickers in a twist about a definition, and when his crotch hurts, he cries like a baby, he sets up a commission, a conference, he holds a discussion at the NEC. Jesus he wants to get the perfect party line on Antisemitism, then all of the truth faith will parrot it, whilst still empathizing with Palestinian bombers.

Corbyn like Livingstone is stuck, their anti racism was ahead of the times in the 80s but behind the time in 2018. Their anti racism from below has been replaced by anti racism for all.

Sticks and stones will break my bones but names.... mean you are being bullied and all complaints will be forwarded by the Party to the Disciplinary Panel, Police etc.

Shite you won't be able to call a comrade a class traitor......soon.
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Boreades


In: finity and beyond
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Get someone dead into your bed.

Not reported on Al Beeb? UK political parties have been missing a trick that's even better than postal voting fraud.

My large 'merican cousin (Wilmer O'Van-Boreadeski) sends me news from the most sensible of all USA states. California.

He says:
In the US it is necessary to register to vote. Presumably a lot of people are not interested or do not have proper papers or have no fixed address so the number of registered voters should be less than the adult population. Not so in parts of California.


Sounds sensible enough? Like the UK Electoral Register. There's plenty of Can't-Be-Bothered people out there that just don't fill in the form and post it back. But, magically, in California, dead people can still vote.

" the most recent California active and inactive voter registration records shows there were more total registered voters than there were adults over the age of 18 living in each of the following eleven (11) counties: Imperial (102%), Lassen (102%), Los Angeles (112%), Monterey (104%), San Diego (138%), San Francisco (114%), San Mateo (111%), Santa Cruz (109%), Solano (111%), Stanislaus (102%), and Yolo (110%). "

Our own research shows that the situation in these counties is, if anything, worse than the foregoing data suggest. For example, we contacted Los Angeles County directly this past June. At that time, county officials informed us that the total number of registered voters now stands at a number that is a whopping 144% of the total number of resident citizens of voting age.

www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/NVRA-letter-CA-August-2017-1.pdf


Giuliani on rigged election: 'Dead people generally vote for Democrats'


It gives a whole new meaning to necrophilia.
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Boreades


In: finity and beyond
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I might have to start voting for the Green Party again. They've solved the Gender Pay Gap problem with their co-leadership.

Jonathan Bartley & Sian Berry (Co-Leaders)

Green Party members have voted Jonathan Bartley and Sian Berry new co-leaders of the party after an internal election this summer.

Bartley and Berry have launched their leadership by pledging to take the party on the course to become the “third political party in Britain” and get a Green in every council chamber.


Jonathan Bartley is being paid “the London Living Wage”, £19,890 per year. It appears that the ‘co-leader’ Sian Berry is doing the job for nothing as a voluntary worker.

I've no problem with that at all. M'Lady Boreades earns all the money from Chateau Boreades' income and in a gender-neutral way I voluntarily help do the work that earns it. I know my place.

All they have to do now is persuade people to vote for this as business model to be rolled-out across the UK. Then, err, all the pay gap problems will go away?
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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A small detail that hasn't got any attention re these two Russians who did the Salisbury job. They flew into Gatwick but left from Heathrow. Why is that significant? Well, if you book return tickets in Moscow the process is entirely anonymous but if you booked Moscow-Gatwick out and Heathrow-Moscow back this would be sufficiently unusual as to potentially raise flags, especially as they couldn't have known ahead of time precisely how long the job would take. Presumably they left via Heathrow because that was the first plane out but this would mean they booked their tickets at Heathrow. We've got their credit card details!

Sorry, to parade my knowledge of tradecraft but I'm reading the Mick Herron Slow Horses spy series at the moment so I'm a bit of an expert.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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Entering and leaving via different airports undoubtedly slows down the tracking process allowing uncertainty, musings and suspicion to be publicly aired.

Yes, it's a covert op but the Russian state isn't averse to advertising its reach while avoiding claiming responsibility. It is presumably more problematic being seen as incompetent (the intended victims survived) than as murderous. The two operatives will probably never leave Russia alive.
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Mick Harper
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You should be reading Herron as this is total nonsense.

Entering and leaving via different airports undoubtedly slows down the tracking process

By about five minutes.

allowing uncertainty, musings and suspicion to be publicly aired
.
It's a covert op. There aren't meant to be any musings or suspicions, publicly aired or otherwise.

Yes, it's a covert op but the Russian state isn't averse to advertising its reach while avoiding claiming responsibility.

So is it a covert op or is it not? You're saying the Russians wanted to get caught?

It is presumably more problematic being seen as incompetent (the intended victims survived) than as murderous
.
So a covert op that was designed not to work in the first place. Now that is subtle.

The two operatives will probably never leave Russia alive.

Rather melodramatic, dear. You've been reading too many spy novels.
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Hatty
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You're saying the Russians wanted to get caught?

Do they care? Terrorists claim responsibility too.


There aren't meant to be any musings or suspicions, publicly aired or otherwise.

Why not? Paranoia was also a Cold War tactic

You're saying the Russians wanted to get caught?

Yes, or at least they don't mind either way.

So a covert op that was designed not to work in the first place. Now that is subtle.

No. It failed but that doesn't mean Russia can't make some capital out of it.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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You're saying the Russians wanted to get caught?
Do they care? Terrorists claim responsibility too.

So why haven't the Russians claimed responsibility?

There aren't meant to be any musings or suspicions, publicly aired or otherwise.
Why not? Paranoia was also a Cold War tactic

Was it? I didn't know. It would be very foolish as a deliberate tactic because it would mean the other side would spend even more on armaments, security etc.

You're saying the Russians wanted to get caught?
Yes, or at least they don't mind either way.

If you say so. I don't have the ear of the Kremlin.

So a covert op that was designed not to work in the first place. Now that is subtle.
No. It failed but that doesn't mean Russia can't make some capital out of it.

What capital would that be? They've got all their diplomats expelled, more sanctions piled on, beefed up security in the west. Have I missed anything?
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Let’s turn it around and assume two British spies have been poisoning people in Russia. Of course Britain denies any such thing. But then the Russians produce some film footage showing two people with British names, carrying British passports, visiting all the relevant places at all the relevant times. Britain carries on denying it, claiming it’s all a Russian false flag operation to take the Russian people’s mind off internal Russian problems.

The rest of the world mostly disbelieves this and briefly these become the two most famous mugshots in the world. Now although these two people are secret agents they are real people with real lives, which means there must be hundreds of people in Britain who recognise them. “Mum, mum, quick, come and look, Uncle Harry’s on the telly.” Since the British are committed to a position that these are Russians on a faked video, this is rather a dangerous strategy for the British to adopt.
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Hatty
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'Traces of Novichok' were reportedly found in the hotel room where the two suspects stayed. It obviously bolsters the case against but some independent corroboration would be helpful. No reference was made to what, if any, effect this could have on other people staying in that room not to mention the people who cleaned it. One hopes there were no bookings and that the cleaners weren't too diligent.
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Mick Harper
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This is surely the smoking gun. It was reported as 'trace' and 'not dangerous' but presumably novichok is not normally to be found in any quantities in your average East End hostelry. I found that detail interesting too. The explanation 'it was out of the way' is absurd. Nothing is more suspicious than two jet-setting (according to their passports) Russkies staying in such a place. It is standard practice for immigration/passport officers to ask of travellers where they will be staying, so "Some pokey drum in the back of beyond" would not be sound tradecraft. The true explanation -- that the GRU is strapped for cash -- is more likely.

It obviously bolsters the case against but some independent corroboration would be helpful.

As I have said from the beginning, the British missed a huge trick by not inviting the Russians along from Day One. Always take opponents at face value when they are lying their heads off.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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I am rather enjoying the latest news on Brexit. It turns out that the body in charge of ensuring the EU referendum was fair, has, according to the High Courts, in fact given out wrong advice.

Or rather its actions lacked “any rational basis” and were “arbitrary”, and its approach to the law was a “recipe for abuse of the spending restrictions”.........

Of course most probably the same advice will have to be given to both sides..... Remain and Leave..... so we will have a equality of crap advice given or the normal bureaucratic cock up.

We now know that the electoral commission did not understand its own rules about rules about rules, in its endeavor to stop.... surprise surprise... both Leave and Remain seeking advantage by bending the EC spending rules.

Anyway given that we now have evidence that the EC cocked up, (the EC will surely now in the modern way have to refer itself to the Police and issue itself a hefty fine.....err... just as it has to others... who were actually following its advice) we can now safely have a rerun, with an old fashioned show of hands.
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