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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Sad business the jailing of Craig Murray. I don't agree with a lot of his tosh, but this doesn't look like justice. I have no idea how anyone could use his reports to jigsaw identify witnesses. I still have no idea who these folk were.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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A tricky one. He obviously wouldn't have got a custodial unless 'a signal had to be sent' but whether that signal is 'women must be protected' or 'male politicians must be protected' or even 'Scottish judges must be protected' is, as they say in Scotchland, 'unproven'. However I knew nothing of this case. How come you do, Wylie?

PS Most writers would give their eye-teeth for a short jail term for something they wrote. But eight months is at the upper level of the tariff.
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Grant



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The Scotch are not natural democrats and Murray is upsetting their leader. He must be punished.

And the signal is that Nicola Sturgeon must be protected
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Boreades


In: finity and beyond
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Wile E. Coyote wrote:
Sad business the jailing of Craig Murray. I don't agree with a lot of his tosh, but this doesn't look like justice. I have no idea how anyone could use his reports to jigsaw identify witnesses. I still have no idea who these folk were.


I concur.

For those that rarely look north of Watford:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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So, Grant, you're saying the judges took it upon themselves to protect Nicola Sturgeon, a democratically-elected leader because Scotland is not very democratic. I think perhaps I should investigate further. These 'Scotch' as you call them are clearly an interesting people. Living somewhere to the north of Watford which gives them a lot of scope.
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Boreades


In: finity and beyond
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Mick Harper wrote:
I think perhaps I should investigate further.


You should.

There are many folk in Scotland, who view this as a fog creeping in from the sea, and covering it up, and turning it into nothing. Where everything is cold, and nothing is visible.

But as an apologist, your mileage may vary.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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AE applies just as much to the exciting world of muckraking as it does to staid orthodoxy. Do not let your guard down just because you are dealing with somebody a) you agree with and b) is doing some of the things we do. We are the bashers of the bashers of the bashers. Which I suppose makes me the basher of the ... and so forth. No pun intended.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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I read Murray's reports of Salmond's trial, before they were removed. I thought he did everything possible to keep the complainants' identity a secret. I still have no idea who they were. Nobody has shown how he revealed an identity, he didn't. This is being done on the premise that if someone was determined and already had say 90% of the jigsaw, Murray, with his own limited information, might (sic) have given them say 10%.

This is the first prosecution ever for jigsaw identification, and it will basically wipe out some court reporting for fear of a jigsaw prosecution.

I am no fan of Murray, I think the first decision on an Indyref should be honoured, and Murray is obssessed with imperialism, whistle blowing, etc, but it's an excellent blog, eg this on the Skripal saga,

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/04/pure-ten-points-i-just-cant-believe-about-the-official-skripal-narrative/

We need more dissidents like Murray.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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We need more dissidents like Murray.

I'm not disagreeing with that. 'Like' Murray being the operative word. We don't want to end up like America where half the country is. Or like Israel where everybody is.

One salient feature of the case -- I'm talking about the Salmond case -- is that the women in question simply didn't seem to be all that much in need of non-identification anyway. None of them did anything wrong. I appreciate they're entitled to anonymity, if that's what the law and the kirk ordains, but we are not talking here about a) rape victims or b) minors or c) Ryan Giggs. It really is getting quite curious.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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We need more dissidents like Murray.

I disagree having started going through the Skripal blog. I've only read his first three (out of ten) points and there are a number of things he got wrong, or distorted. We may be guilty too of being selective when making a case but not, I hope, of peddling half-truths and, worse, making a conspiracy out of them.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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According to the BBC Clive Thompson got six monthes for tweeting the complainants' names twice. It seems a tad strange that Murray gets more time, for not naming them, but that is the problem with Jigsaw Identification, you arrive by the warped logic that the person charged was trying to cunningly conceal his or her crime. This deviousness on the behalf of the accused makes the offence worse!

Of course most folks who worked out who the complainants were, would have done this via getting single jigsaw pieces from multiple sources (the jigsaw is strewn across the floor), probably in part via googling. So should not every possible source, of one piece, be prosecuted, not just Murray?
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Hatty wrote:
We need more dissidents like Murray.

I disagree having started going through the Skripal blog. I've only read his first three (out of ten) points and there are a number of things he got wrong, or distorted. We may be guilty too of being selective when making a case but not, I hope, of peddling half-truths and, worse, making a conspiracy out of them.


I agree he is always into criticising the US and Britain, and holding them to much higher account, than say Russia. Nevertheless I struggled to break his concerns about the Skripal affair, although I felt he was flirting with a conspiracy. Forensic skills are not really within my skillset. Apologies if you feel I have wasted your time.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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I'm very grateful to you for bringing up Murray's blog on the Skripal poisoning. What he left out, but presumably knew about, were the other cases of Russian dissidents, or traitors as Putin would say, in the UK who died in suspicious circumstances that seem not to have been fully explained.

The argument that Novichok is a Russian method of assassination has surely been clinched by the Navalny case, on Russian soil. The attempt as we know failed, even though the novichok was reportedly in Navalny's underpants, which seems not to have been fully explained. Murray presumably read up on novichok and is of course entitled to speculate about its effects and the police investigation but I get the impression that with hindsight he's proposed a conspiracy or series of conspiracies based on people's slow reactions (or maybe incompetence), i.e. normal behaviour in the cirumstances.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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I have to agree with Hatty. (It's stopped clock syndrome, she's bound to be right twice a day.) The trap Murray's fallen into with the Skripals is the usual conspiracy theory one, that we are all familiar with here viz

AE Rule: The more investigators there are the more coincidences and anomalies will show up. When it's kosher. When it isn't, conspirators make sure there are no coincidences and anomalies or at any rate they're damned difficult to find.

The problem here is that it was a conspiracy. On the part of the Russian government. And they were hopelessly incompetent conspirators i.e. they got found out. Not by conspiracy theorists but by BellingCat et al. If Murray had been an 'investigative reporter' he would immediately have held his hand up, admitted he got it wrong and moved on. You win some, you lose some. That's not what it says in his blog. There he starts off mealy-mouthed and ends up doubling down. That's how you know he's a conspiracy theorist.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Craig Murray is now being banged up at 10.30 today for 8 months.

Scottish PEN expresses grave concern over the imprisonment of Craig Murray and calls for his release. The writer is the first person to be imprisoned in Scotland for media contempt for over 70 years.


I suppose the only slim shaft of light in this is that it doesn't seem to happen that often. I doubt that there will be further prosecutions, and it won't actually stop the principled Murray, who after release will become more of a thorn, after having moved to England.
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