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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Why would the Church want to use Yahweh anyway, is it trying to 'reach out' to young Jewish people as well as rock music fans as part of its all-encompassing appeal? But it's hardly a new strategy using music to dull the mental faculties, "that's how they get you" a Turkish (Jewish) friend told me darkly, referring to hymn-singing. Is Portland an "atheist" (and thus sophisticated, urbane?) city as a reaction to Oregon's redneck belt?
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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How ironic that the most avowedly democratic Land of Opportunity should interest itself in royal connections. Presumably claiming a royal lineage bestows that elusive leadership quality. Let's hope McCain isn't a haemophiliac.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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She is also a stalwart of the Christian right -- or was, until news of the unmarried teenage daughter's pregnancy was bruited. If Americans can view a black Democratic candidate with equanimity, does that mean they're becoming a little less uptight and could that lead to a less judgemental attitude overall?
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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We had our own version of this. A Tory woman cabinet minister with strong Christian views was railing against unmarried teenage pregnancies when it was pointed out that she had herself become pregnant as an unmarried teenager. I think, from memory, she had an abortion. Abortion is strictly a Catholic thing over here. [Except of course the loonie Xtian right always apes Americana.]
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Talking of Catholics and women cabinet members, there was Shirley Williams. Or rather there was her husband, Professor of Philosophy Bernard Williams, who refused to give her a divorce because he was so strongly Catholic.
I didn't mind that specially but became thoroughly incensed when the BBC gave him a whole television series on 'Belief' and he kept lecturing us about how we should endeavour to be more rational.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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The best religion/running mate story I ever heard was re Harry Truman in 1944. Told he had to have a religion, he asked what the majority was in America, so elected to become Episcopalian (ie Anglican). Told that "Harry" was too informal, he added an S and became Harry S Truman.
Though I doubt either of these stories is actually true (Republican scuttlebutt) I like to believe them.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Hatty wrote: | | She is also a stalwart of the Christian right -- or was, until news of the unmarried teenage daughter's pregnancy was bruited. If Americans can view a black Democratic candidate with equanimity, does that mean they're becoming a little less uptight and could that lead to a less judgemental attitude overall? |
You SOOoooo...do not understand the religious right. Not that I find your ignorance surprising.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| EndlesslyRocking wrote: | | My gut says that Obama does not have a chance of winning. We'll see if I'm wrong. |
You are not.
This election will be such a shocking blow-out, the Democratic Party will fall into complete disarray and acrimony.
I honestly feel sad for the disillusionment that is coming for many on the left. Of course, even then, many will not wake up. It's always for them about someone who "stole" the election once again by "distracting" people from the supposed "real issues".
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| You SOOoooo...do not understand the religious right. Not that I find your ignorance surprising. |
You're absolutely correct, Ishmael. Now you see it so clearly with a liberal you will be able to apply the same to your own purblind views.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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But surely, Ishmael, given the closeness of the last two presidential races, if there is a blowout this time it will be because of the nature of the Democratic candidate. In other words, his blackness. So to that extent the election really will have been 'stolen'.
I myself assume that Obama will do catastrophically badly because of his blackness but I am constantly amazed at how often the world speeds past my own jaundiced view of it.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | We had our own version of this. |
Quite wrong.
The woman is pro-life (anti-abortion).
She had a child diagnosed with Down's Syndrome while it was still in the womb. She chose to give birth to the child.
Recently, leftists spread rumours that the child was not hers but belonged to her daughter and that the mother claimed the baby in some politically-motivated "cover up", from fear of the religious right.
(Like Hatty, American Leftists grossly misunderstand the nature of the so-called "religious right")
It was then that Ms. Palin revealed that the 17 year-old daughter (the supposed mother of the Down Syndrome baby) was actually five months pregnant and the family was welcoming the new child. The daughter plans to marry the baby's father.
To the religious right, this is not hypocrisy.
This is a woman who has proven her pro-life bonafides twice in real-world experience. Her popularity among conservatives cannot now be exaggerated.
===============
On the subject of hypocrisy, however, I am tempted to defend it. A politician is meant to represent the views of his constituents. If he can't embody their values, he can at least give voice to them!
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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You are, as usual, putting me in with the leftists. The comparison I was making was with unmarried teenage sex in both cases. No need to apologise, your squirming is reward enough.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | But surely, Ishmael, given the closeness of the last two presidential races, if there is a blowout this time it will be because of the nature of the Democratic candidate. In other words, his blackness. So to that extent the election really will have been 'stolen'. |
It will be blamed on his blackness.
The reality is different.
Obama is no stronger a candidate than was Kerry. They are both liberal elites -- though Obama's politics are considerably more left-leaning than even Kerry's. Nevertheless, both should be about equal performers in a national contest -- that is, they both would lose -- narrowly -- to George W. Bush.
That's pretty sad when you can't even beat one of the most unpopular presidents in history (but how can they hope to do better when they keep nominating the same guy?).
But they aren't facing George Bush this year. They are facing John McCain. McCain is loved even by Demoocrats. Which is why so much of the Democratic campaign this year is actually focused on convincing Democrats not to vote for him.
No one notices this but it's true. Thus the effort to link McCain to Bush. The message is, "McCain is not that McCain -- not the McCain you know and love. This is a weird hybrid Bush-McCain."
That message is needed only when Democratic voters need convincing.
| I myself assume that Obama will do catastrophically badly because of his blackness but I am constantly amazed at how often the world speeds past my own jaundiced view of it. |
Mick. 15 years ago or so, General Colin Powel could have walked away with the presidency -- if he would take it. But he wouldn't.
A woman can be Prime Minister -- if she is a Conservative. A black man can be president, if he is Republican. I don't make the rules. I just report 'em. It's not the sex. It's not the race. It's the implication made by the confluence of identity and politics.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| EndlesslyRocking wrote: | | She must be the first running-mate who is both Catholic and evangelical Christian. |
You need an education on the nature of evangelicals.
As for the Creationism canard, this was an offhand comment she made that she later clarified.
On the other hand, I do believe Creationism should be taught in schools.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| On the other hand, I do believe Creationism should be taught in schools. |
It is, at primary level, in the Bible stories class or whatever it's called. But that level of teaching isn't appropriate for older age groups.
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