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Origins of Mankind (Somewhat Experimental) (Pre-History)
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Grant wrote:
Like Hippos.

Hippos live in a hot country...


ergo....
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Ishmael


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Grant wrote:
And bipedalism

If you live in the snowy wastes it's pretty useful to stand up tall (like a penguin)


Or a...?

or a...?

Hmm... of all the other northern animals I can think of not one that stands up tall.

And for that matter, the penguin stands up tall because it stands upon its aquatic propulsion system: Anterior legs.
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Ishmael


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Grant wrote:
That doesn't work as an explanation of clothes-wearing becuase it doesn't explain why we had no hair in temperate/hot climes. No other ape ever did the same.


The other apes didn't spend as much time in the water as we did.

Apes are to buffalo as we are to hippo.
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Ishmael


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Pulp History wrote:
On the question of hairlessness / hairyness.... why are the three hairiest places on an adult male the groin, the armpits and the face / neck? If the hair was lost for reasons of heat, then why not lost here? Surely the groin has to remain cool to reproduce sperm and yet is one of the areas to develop hair to keep warm!


The primary purpose of hair is not warmth. That's secondary. Warm blooded mammals have internal temperature control systems. No reason that thermostat couldn't be turned up higher, given sufficient caloric intake (or so I imagine).

Hair exists to primarily (so I say) to provide follicle bindings for chemical communication (scent). You can swim just fine with a fur coat, as otters and seals prove. But as water prevents the airborne transmission of chemicals, the primary function of the hair is lost. There's no cost to losing it and, if the water is sufficiently warm, there may be an advantage to getting rid of it.

But our aquatic ancestors never did completely leave the shore. I suspect we continued to mate there (it's easier to do it on the beach than in the surf). Thus, the chemical centers associated with sex retained their scent-bearing capacity.
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Grant



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On the question of hairlessness / hairyness.... why are the three hairiest places on an adult male the groin, the armpits and the face / neck?


I've always assumed we kept hair on the groin and armpits because those areas are subject to much friction. Hair prevents injuries which is of vital importance when you don't have any antibiotics.

As for the head, surely this was to stop sunburn.
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Ishmael


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Grant wrote:
I've always assumed we kept hair on the groin and armpits because those areas are subject to much friction.

That is one of the (several) conventional explanations. It is wrong.

How much friction does a man experience on his chest?

How much friction is a woman's lower abdomen subject to?

Do children have less friction under the arms?

Why don't hippos have hairy armpits?

Clearly. What hair that grows at puberty is directly related to sex (which isn't the same as saying it's directly related to reproduction. More on that later).
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Ishtar



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We are hairiest in the places we sweat / smell the most. Hair can help hold the smell and 'waft' it through the air.

Maybe clothing wasn't created for warmth but perhaps the first 'clothing' was more like a towel? Keeps you smelly even after swimming.

edit: I mean wear it before you go into the water, put it back on again after.
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Rocky



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But in the olden days, people didn't shower much, so you'd probably stink even without hair or clothes on yourself. That's one of the things I remember learning in elementary school, was that people in the middle ages were stinky.
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Ishmael


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Ishtar wrote:
Maybe clothing wasn't created for warmth but perhaps the first 'clothing' was more like a towel? Keeps you smelly even after swimming.


A very good idea. Though I think you will find that clothing only supresses chemical transmission.
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Ishmael


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Rocky wrote:
But in the olden days, people didn't shower much, so you'd probably stink even without hair or clothes on yourself. That's one of the things I remember learning in elementary school, was that people in the middle ages were stinky.

Yes. And everything was dirty and wet, just like in Braveheart.

Ever notice that in all *realistic* films depicting the middle ages, it's always filthy and the sun never shines?

I am personally skeptical of the whole "one bath a year" story. Kids have always loved to go swimming and women have always washed the laundry. Any man who shaves is quite familiar with soap and water Would they be less fastidious with their bodies? (and they did go in for a lot of soap-making for the little use they are said to have made of it).
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Pulp History


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And what possible evolutionary theory can explain my now hairy nostrils and ears, when once they were as clean as a newborn baby's? Why are they there, and why only after 30 years of age????
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Mick Harper
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It is always said that Christianity (aka St Paul) was peculiarly opposed to washing. If true, not washing appears to have given us Christians a civilisational advantage.
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Ishmael


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Pulp History wrote:
And what possible evolutionary theory can explain my now hairy nostrils and ears, when once they were as clean as a newborn baby's? Why are they there, and why only after 30 years of age????


Hair grows wherever secretions emerge from our bodies. This is to lift into the air the chemicals contained in those secretions.

Our ears are full of nobs, folds and dangly bits. Why? It's all to attract tongues (This is the case everywhere on our bodies in which we find something dangling, poking out, or squeezed in cleavage). But as we get older, the sad truth is that fewer people care to lick our ears. So hair grows there to do the job our now diminished sexual appeal once did: Transmit our chemical messages to others.

But what truly astounds me is the obvious relationship between the words "secretion" and "secret". It is enough to make one think that human language is a mere shadow of a much richer inter-cellular language from which our conscious minds have borrowed. And indeed, I think this likely. I will post on this topic shortly.
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Ishmael


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Mick Harper wrote:
It is always said that Christianity (aka St Paul) was peculiarly opposed to washing. If true, not washing appears to have given us Christians a civilisational advantage.


What?

Whatever happened to "cleanliness is next to godliness?"
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Mick Harper
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As understand it, "cleanliness being next to godliness" is a Victorian homily. In fact it would be interesting to track down the origin of the phrase -- my guess would be the PR department of the Sunlight Soap Co (aka Unilever).

Christians thought that being unclothed was far too sexual an activity for questions of health even to obtrude. cf the Catholic Church preferring millions die of AIDS rather than the possibility of condom use leading to illicit sex. [This is irrespective of whether you believe the theory, the Church clearly does not care either way.]
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