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Ghostbusters (NEW CONCEPTS)
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TelMiles


In: London
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I too believe in ghosts and have my own proof that they exist. I'm not going to talk about my experiences as they won't change anyone's mind, nor will anyone's rubbishing of them change mine.

What gets me is that there are a lot of people who simply close their minds to the mere possibility of ghosts. Equally there are a lot of charlatans about who extort large sums of money by claiming to talk to the dead.

I would just like to credit people with having an open mind and not immediately assuming the experiences are "fake".
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Pulp History


In: Wales
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I have experienced 'strange' phenomena ...... ones which were experienced by 3 people present at the time. The phenomena happened 3 times in succession, with the last time continuing whilst we all stood there saying "this is ridiculous". I have rationalised and cannot explain what we experienced, but you have to be there to understand I suppose, so each person must go through it for themselves!!!
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Pulp History wrote:
I have rationalised and cannot explain what we experienced

We might try, if you would describe it.
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Pulp History


In: Wales
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Okay...... you'll think I'm mad!!!

I used to run a public house and was well accustomed to the sounds of the delivery and movement of full kegs of ale.......

Well, one night after closing, my wife, mother and I were sitting in the lounge upstairs. At about 1am we heard the loud and distinct sound of full aluminium kegs of ale being dragged across the concrete floor of the cellar. I immediately thought somebody was in the pub - went downstairs and all doors and windows were locked. Cellar door locked and no kegs moved. No empty kegs outside and the sound was of full kegs anyway!!

Back upstairs and slightly confused. 10 minutes later the same sound again only louder. This time I took a knife with me because I was convinced someone was in the pub. All checked and correct - nothing moved, nothing unlocked. This then happened a THIRD time 10 minutes later, but EVEN LOUDER and the sound was coming up the stairwell, and was definitely emanating from inside the building!!

I have no explanation for this and am 100% certain it was the sound of full kegs being dragged across concrete below us!!

On a few other occasions we could hear furniture being moved in the bar below our bedroom and once the sound of pool being played!! All locked up and correct on inspection!! We regularly used to shut up the bar and walk out in darkness, only to come in the following morning to several lights on!!

Strange and confusing............
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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My first attempt at explaining relies on the fact that the human ear doesn't do too well at locating sound sources, especially when there are intervening floors and halls.

I suspect you heard sounds similar to what you normally hear with the kegs but the source was outside the building -- in the street or in a nearby building. At night, sound travels differently (more effectively) than it does in the day and thus, also behaves differently. When the sound entered your location, your mind interpreted it in the context of the location -- no doubt because the sound was extremely similar.

Now....had you gone downstairs and seen a semi-transparent man rolling the kegs about.....THEN I might think you were mad.

On the basis of this story, I'd say you were perfectly lucid and reasonable but insufficiently skeptical. "Ghosts" ought to be the very last explanation we apply.
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Pulp History


In: Wales
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I quite agree, Ish, but we were in the middle of a remote Welsh village and what caused the sound (inside or outside), which sounded EXACTLY like kegs on concrete, I cannot conceive!! And three of us were there and heard the sound inside the building............. who knows!!
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Bronwyn wrote:
Is this possible? Or is an "Old Hag" holding me down?

Of course, the answer is both. The scientists just have a more complicated "name" for the thing. Once a phenomenon has a name, we call it "understood."

I must denounce this trumpery relativism. The answer is not 'both' since explanation (a) [a mad old woman physically pressing down on one's chest] is probably untrue whereas explanation (b) [a medical condition] is probably true. We must not allow our contempt for 'science' to lead us into equating it with old-wives-tales.

It's the same with Darwinians vs The Godlot. Just because we disagree with both does not mean they are equal in status.
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AJMorton



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Mick Harper
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You misunderstand. The term 'Old Hag' is the name of a phenomenon and not a derogatory term for a genuine old woman.

What nonsense. Possibly some ironic post-modernists call it Old Hag but the use of the term is certainly not meant to convey, "Darling, I had a spot of apnea last night." "Did you dear, I expect it's because you had the painters-and-decorators in."

The experience commonly known as 'Old Hag' has happened and the reasons are probably lurking deep inside the mysterious human mind.

There you go again. The explanation might be "lurking deep inside the mysterious human mind" but what actually happened is not. It's (probably) lurking in the not-very-mysterious bronchio-vascular system.

And the things we can see when in the Hypnogogic or Hypnapompic states are not provably non-existant.

Yes they are. Nobody else ever sees them.

How do you know that when the human mind is in certain states, that it cannot see things which are invisible to the rest of us?

Because the eye doesn't change in 'certain states', it can only see what is before it. The brain of course can see imaginary things.

The subject is open to debate not denouncement based on a weak belief system

I wouldn't have thought our entire scientific world-view based on verified observations is 'a weak belief system' but that I agree is up for debate.
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AJMorton



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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Yes they are.

Ok. I await proof.

I don't think you've entirely grasped the concept of proof. Every time somebody has one of these episodes but no evidence is left (save the person's recollection), that is itself evidence that it didn't happen in fact ie other than in that person's mind. This is because all visitations must leave evidence of some sort however CSI-ish. Once you have more than eighty seven point eight million episodes (I believe that's the widely accepted figure) where no evidence is left, this adds up to proof.

However if it's any consolation, should you come up with one occasion (yes one, folks!) when evidence is left then that will be proof that something real is going on.
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AJMorton



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Mick Harper
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I don't know of any other meaning of 'proof' than 'collation of evidence'. I trust we're not going to get bogged down in metaphysical arguments about certainty.

Or philosophical ones either. If a million sheep pass me by that are white I shall deem that proof of sheep being white. When a black one is produced I'll take that as proof that they can come in either colour.

Nor am I concerned with any evidence-of-absence arguments in this particular area since we are overwhelmed with evidence. Millions of people report the same symptoms, millions of episodes leave no evidence. None does. Therefore the episodes were all in the mind.
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