MemberlistThe Library Index  FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Hill Forts (British History)
Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 87, 88, 89  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

The bloke who introduced the Greek alphabet (also very bird-like) was called Cadmus. The bloke what wrote the first bit of English was called Caedmon and he wrote in runes. Despite the obvious legendary nature of these people, Anglo-Saxon scholars actually believe Caedmon was a real person.
Send private message
Hatty
Site Admin

In: Berkshire
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Looks like this developed out of some sort of tally system for counting.

Wiki says that in Egyptian mythology, Thoth is said to have won the five extra days in the 365-day calendar by gambling with the moon

Thoth gambled with the Moon for 1/72nd of its light (360/72 = 5), or 5 days, and won


The earth it seems moves one degree in a 72-year cycle relative to the other stars -- if this is so, it would have navigational implications. 72 hours is three days which seems to have all kinds of religious/mystical significance (in particular, 'Thrice-great Hermes' and the phoenix, not to mention Jesus, rising from the ashes after three days)

Phoenix in Arabic is Anqa. An ankh?
Send private message
frank h



View user's profile
Reply with quote

How and when did Greek or Phoenician 'pyrg' get transliterated into the Germanic and other languages, including Persian, Maghreb, Levant etc?



A realistic answer or reasonable theory based on evidence would be appreciated.
Send private message
Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
View user's profile
Reply with quote

frank h wrote:
How and when did Greek or Phoenician 'pyrg' get transliterated into the Germanic and other languages, including Persian, Maghreb, Levant etc?



A realistic answer or reasonable theory based on evidence would be appreciated.


I think you will find that the Germans think this stems from Burgh, the Persians from Borj, so both sides can agree that the answer is Byzantine Greece.
Send private message
Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
View user's profile
Reply with quote

frank h wrote:
How and when did Greek or Phoenician 'pyrg' get transliterated into the Germanic and other languages, including Persian, Maghreb, Levant etc?



A realistic answer or reasonable theory based on evidence would be appreciated.


There again Ish would write, something like P=B, explain that the Middle Ages didn't exist, and point out the similarity of the shape of the letters. (?)

I might be wrong, but I least try to fathom what he is talking about.
Send private message
frank h



View user's profile
Reply with quote

Wile E. Coyote wrote:
so both sides can agree that the answer is Byzantine Greece.

But where geographically was the trading link of the Greeks to northern Europe, sea or land routes?.
As mentioned in this thread some time ago, maybe the French cities Paris and Troyes provide a clue. Perhaps they went further to say Hamburg region and picked up on the Baltic amber trade.

But sadly I'm speculating here, it's not evidence.
Send private message
Ishmael


In: Toronto
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Wile E. Coyote wrote:
There again Ish would write, something like P=B


P and B even sound alike (if the P is not pronounced like "F").

And you should indeed not assume any timeline when analyzing language relationships.
Send private message
Chad


In: Ramsbottom
View user's profile
Reply with quote

But where geographically was the trading link of the Greeks to northern Europe, sea or land routes?.


Is there anything similar sounding in Hebrew/Phoenician?
Send private message
frank h



View user's profile
Reply with quote

Chad wrote:
But where geographically was the trading link of the Greeks to northern Europe, sea or land routes?.


Googling - the main Amber Road (Bernsteinstrasse) was an overland/rivers route, apparently very ancient starting near St Petersburg, through Danzig, Vienna, Trieste and Venice and on to the Med and Black Sea. It is seemingly a route lined with bork and grad villages (stopping stations?).

Other similar old trade roads cross Germany/Poland to the lower Rhine and Elbe rivers.

Perhaps ancient Greeks and other southern based traders used the route to the Baltic, stopping at 'pyrg' rest places, and subsequently adopted into the Germanic languages?.

How to spot the first pyrgs is a tough ask though. The bork are probably the Goths and grad the Slav traders.
Send private message
frank h



View user's profile
Reply with quote

Ishmael wrote:
P and B even sound alike (if the P is not pronounced like "F").

The convention is that the Germanic berg(mountain) led to burg(protection/stronghold).

Pyrg in Greek is tower and can mean fort.

How could this same reduction to stronghold independently occur in both languages if say, the original meaning of tower = height?
Send private message
Ishmael


In: Toronto
View user's profile
Reply with quote

So a pidgeon (pyrg-eon) perhaps is a bird that inhabits a tower.
Send private message
Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Ishmael wrote:
So a pidgeon (pyrg-eon) perhaps is a bird that inhabits a tower.


Yes.
Send private message
frank h



View user's profile
Reply with quote

Ishmael wrote:
So a pidgeon (pyrg-eon) perhaps is a bird that inhabits a tower.


Apparently the underlying meaning of burg(stronghold) and berg(mountain) in the Germanic languages is 'protection'.

The 6th century BC Phoenician 'pyrgi' near Rome was a port with walls and ditches. Perhaps also rendering the meaning as a place of 'protection'.

A bird tower could similarly be a place that protects birds. Hence the modern Greek 'pyrgos' for tower, I suppose.

It still does not explain how it got into German though, along a trade route seems likely. But how? Solid evidence not speculation would be welcomed.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

I expect Frank knows all about this

Megalithic Portal might like to know that the Atlas for Hillforts Project has a million quid in research funding, and a site on the web.

There is something about citizen science, and similar stuff.

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=6465&forum=5&start=0
Send private message
frank h



View user's profile
Reply with quote

Mick Harper wrote:
I expect Frank knows all about this
Atlas for Hillforts Project


It seems to be a joint project to be carried out by Oxford and Edinburgh unis.

Not much actual digging on site is apparently proposed, mainly digitising current information, and presumably will not be available for some time.

Presently English Heritage has a list of reports on the larger Hfts 1.5 hectares or more, and Hogg's book and maps can still be acquired on Amazon and surfing the web for often vague county information.

It would be helpful if their research extended to embrace the vast numbers of Hfts on the continent as well.

In my opinion the main deficiency is solid reliable archaeology on dates of occupation and particularly abandonment. Presently very limited indeed, except for a few high profile investigations such as Maiden Castle in Dorset and some in Wessex etc.
Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 87, 88, 89  Next

Jump to:  
Page 88 of 89

MemberlistThe Library Index  FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group