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Matters Arising (The History of Britain Revealed)
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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The three hares reminds me, a set of three hares (and game-birds, foxes etc.) is called a "leash" in sporting circles. Apparently 14th century, leash is said to 'come from French laisse', the complete opposite of its meaning in English of a leather thong for holding a dog or tying a falcon or hawk to the wrist!

Hares seem to be a symbol of virginity in Christian lore unlike the far more subversive rabbit that could literally undermine established sites. Hence Alice (Alisha) and her time-obsessed white rabbit guide to the underground.
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Hatty
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How likely is that ?

A way of saying that the weather can't be controlled even though humans are so advanced they can cultivate things like fruit trees?
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Hatty
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The raven is a mirror of the dove.

Raven backwards is nevar = to snow (in Spain, at least). Mirror writing apart I don't see any mirroring.

John the Baptist is supposedly a dove, something to do with holy spirit I expect. Since he was a desert hermit he probably got presented with pigeon droppings.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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The romans used mirror writing to curse, change luck.

A raven associated trickster/thief signifies bad luck, sometimes death.

A dove associated mother goddess brings good fate sometimes life beginning although the good fate can sometimes be destruction or retribution against an enemy.

Noah first sent out a raven then a dove.
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Hatty
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Doves became heralds of peace in medieval Christian symbology but were never associated with moon goddesses as far as I'm aware.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Theres quite a bit in this article.

http://www.bib-arch.org/e-features/enduring-doves.asp

The dove was sacred to Astarte, Ishtar, Freyja, Brighid, and Aphrodite.

Aphrodite is often featured with a dove.
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Hatty
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Dovecotes were an important food store in Britain, not unlike rabbit warrens, and not just confined to large country estates but on main transport links (which are also the locations of temples to Astarte or whatever the local deity happens to be called). Since they still hang around, not being afraid of humans, and have predictable flight paths, they get routinely shot and delivered to Sainsbury's shrines.

Not much dove-interest in British folklore. St. David is the patron saint of doves in Wales which isn't surprising since he's a 'navigational' saint.
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Hatty
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The romans used mirror writing to curse, change luck.

Reversing things seems to have been a Megalithic speciality (cf. the flag of Cornwall which is the exact reverse of Brittany's flag, the Red Cross ditto with the Swiss flag). Little wonder that in Christian eyes mirror writing meant 'bad luck' if not worse.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Ok we have a flood myth and a discovery of land, by a dove.

What about Dover ?
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Hatty
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Dover is connected via a so-called Roman trade route to Trier and Cologne via Boulogne. Ursula or Little Bear, a 'British princess', went on a pan-European pilgrimage ending at Cologne or Köln where she was murdered.

Noah's dove didn't discover land, that was the raven's job, but brought back information as a reliable messenger must. Do messengers have to be killed to safeguard trade secrets?
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Hmmm, the consistent is the dove/seagull and raven.

The raven is the trickster. The dove/seagull supplies the birth/mother element.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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Hatty wrote:
Dover is connected via a so-called Roman trade route to Trier and Cologne via Boulogne. Ursula or Little Bear, a 'British princess', went on a pan-European pilgrimage ending at Cologne or Köln where she was murdered.


This is the story of Harold Godwinson.
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Hatty
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I was thinking in terms of navigation and Ursa Minor. The connection is via St. Martin (of Tours) the patron saint of Dover who also gave his name to Cologne's oldest monastery, built on an island, i.e. to control the Rhine crossing.

St. Martin's church at Guston (thought to mean 'goose town') connects Dover and Sandwich via a 'Roman' road ending at St. Margaret's White Cliff, where the sun is popularly said to first reach Britain from the Continent.
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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I had a quick look at Saint Ursula, just for fun.

So I thought... which earth/moon goddess is she?

Anyway... she looked like Artemis (to me).

So I looked for a river/hunting connection...

River Ouse looked best.......

The most famous Ursula connected with the Ouse is the following..... Sorry Chad, it's not a link to that Ursula....but she does make predictions about the Ouse and...well........


http://www.mothershiptonscave.com/mother_shipton.htm

I never did find the connection to Dover.......
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nemesis8


In: byrhfunt
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I am starting to like Knaresborough. Apart from Mother Shipton and the murderers of Thomas a Becket, Guy Fawkes once lived there.....Place is genuinely evil.....
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