| View previous topic :: View next topic |
Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
|
|
 |
|
| Mick Harper wrote: | All right then.
| Wiley wrote: | | I don't think they did a lot of stone mortice and tenon joints in the Neolithic |
They're always going on about them. If you can discover that Stonehenge's are in fact unique among Megalithic monuments, your case will be strengthened no end. |
The mortise and tenon joint is an ancient joint dating back 7,000 years. The first examples, tusked joints, were found in a well near Leipzig – the world's oldest intact wooden architecture.[3] These were created by early Neolithic Linear Pottery culture, where it was used in the construction of the wooden lining of the wells.[4] Mortise and tenon joints have also been found joining the wooden planks of the "Khufu ship",[5] a 43.6 m (143 ft) long vessel sealed into a pit in the Giza pyramid complex of the Fourth Dynasty around 2500 BC.
Drawing of a wooden ship with annotations of hull elements.
Ship hull demonstrating the Phoenician joint technique of locked (pegged) mortise and tenon
Mortise and tenon joints have also been found in ancient furniture from archaeological sites in the Middle East, Europe and Asia. Many instances are found, for example, in ruins of houses in the Silk Road kingdom of Cadota, dating from the first to the 4th century BC.[6] In traditional Chinese architecture, wood components such as beams, brackets, roof frames, and struts were made to interlock with perfect fit, without using fasteners or glues, enabling the wood to expand and contract according to humidity.[7] Archaeological evidence from Chinese sites shows that, by the end of the Neolithic, mortise and tenon joinery was employed in Chinese construction.[8]
The thirty sarsen stones of Stonehenge were dressed and fashioned with mortise and tenon joints before they were erected between 2600 and 2400 BC.[9]
A variation of the mortise and tenon technique, called Phoenician joints (from the Latin coagmenta punicana)[10][11] was extensively used in ancient shipbuilding to assemble hull planks and other watercraft components together. It is a locked (pegged) mortise and tenon technique that consists of cutting two mortises into the edges of two planks; a separate rectangular tenon is then inserted in the two mortises. The assembly is then locked in place by driving a dowel through one or more holes drilled through mortise side wall and tenon.[12][13] |
The only stone mortise and tenon joints in the Neolithic are the Stone-heng ones. Unless Wiki is missing examples. I will do a wider search.
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
|
|
|
|
There is a helpful group of images of Stone-heng images here, it includes an image of how the stones were fixed using mortise and tenon. It also includes an image from an illuminated manuscript of Merlin building the monument, and an early Tudor watercolour. It's worth flicking through.
https://britishheritage.org/stonehenge
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
|
It would seem that Stonehenge is unique but you're not out of the woods since (it could be argued) that the trilithons are the only structure that would need them. Even though it is clear that dolmens etc could have done with them if the technique was available. Although, having said that, what are the relatively modern examples of this woodworking technique being applied to stone? From memory, I think they were copiously used in gothic cathedrals by stonemasons. What is the modern way of stone jointure?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
|
|
|
|
| Mick Harper wrote: | | It would seem that Stonehenge is unique but you're not out of the woods since (it could be argued) that the trilithons are the only structure that would need them. Even though it is clear that dolmens etc could have done with them if the technique was available. Although, having said that, what are the relatively modern examples of this woodworking technique being applied to stone? From memory, I think they were copiously used in gothic cathedrals by stonemasons. What is the modern way of stone jointure? |
I disagree, why would dolmens benefit from a joggle joint? They stay up by the weight of stone, and by the skill of the builders who carefully selected and fitted the stones together. I can't see any advantage at all in having stones tightly fitting by joggle joints. Are you suggesting that keeping out the elements would have been an ancient priority?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
|
I am only suggesting that if the Megalithics were cognisant of mortice-and-tenon stone working, there would probably be evidence of it. I'm trying to help here!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
|
|
|
|
|
Thank you. Just trying to be clear about any refutations, it's all very useful as it forces me to be clearer. Clarity of exposition not being a Wiley strong point.......
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
Just When You Thought It Was Safe...
Video: Prehistory for Antifascists - Dr Ben Pitcher at Stone Club December 2022
Ben Pitcher gave a fascinating talk at Stone Club's First Birthday Event on Monday. Ben is a reader in Sociology and the Megalithic Portal was there to record it (and drink some Stone Club beer). Ben's forthcoming book is Back to the Stone Age: Race and Prehistory in Contemporary Culture. Who are we? Where did we come from? What are we like? These questions are alive in contemporary culture. http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=2146415020 | |
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
Here's a nice little problem to start you off in the New Year. It concerns this routine piece in medium.com
I'll just put up the original piece in full because the mystery is why such a very dull plant got noticed at all. There must be a reason, it presumably is a Megalithic reason, and somebody ought to be able to work out what it was.
--------------------------
Procumbent pearlwort (Sagina procumbens) is common throughout Britain on lawns, banks and grass verges. It is also found alongside footpaths. The connection to pearls is not immediately apparent when viewing the plant, although it might have been thought that the seed pod or unopened flower was similar in shape to a pearl. “Procumbent” simply means that the plant grows along the ground.
Procumbent pearlwort has been associated in legend and tradition with Jesus Christ, as being the first plant he trod on when rising from the dead. In the Highlands of Scotland it used to be believed that the plant had been blessed by St Bride and St Columba, as well as Christ.
Traditions involving pearlwort include hanging it from the door lintel to ward off fairies. Another is that if pearlwort is inserted between the “toes” of a bull’s hooves it will confer protection against all ills on the cows with which it mates and the calves that are subsequently born. If it is eaten by a cow, anyone who drinks the cow’s milk will not be troubled by fairies.
Pearlwort also acted as a love charm, in that a maiden who drank an infusion of pearlwort would attract the man she wanted, and he would be bound to her forever if she had a piece of pearlwort in her mouth when she kissed him. You might almost imagine that there was a “Pearlwort Marketing Board” at work here!
With all these advantages, one might expect procumbent pearlwort to be a somewhat spectacular plant. Far from it! It is a mass of slender stems that branch out from a central rosette, with pairs of small leaves growing along the length of each stem. The plant can reach a height of 8 inches (20m centimetres) above the ground.
The flowers, which appear from May to October, are tiny and are borne on long stalks. The flowers consist of far more sepal than petal and therefore have little colour other than green. The sepals form a cross-shape in fours. The flower stalks droop after flowering but become upright again as the fruit ripens.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
New one on me, I didn't know Polynesian and Micronesian cultures used celestial navigation. Lots of other things but not that.
| The study by skyscape archaeologist, Alessandro Berio, has uncovered new evidence that the ancient Minoan civilisation developed significant nautical technologies to aid in the international sea trade, which is linked to the wealth and expansion of the culture throughout the Mediterranean. Due to its location, reliance on open sea navigation and international trade cycles were at the heart of Minoan culture. |
A small AE point. You may not have heard of skyscape archaeologists. Me neither. People trying to establish new academic specialisms tend to gild lilies more than somewhat so we're gonna have to look out for that.
| The Minoans were a Bronze Age Aegean civilisation on the island of Crete, which flourished from 2600 – 1100 BC. The term “Minoan” refers to the mythical King Minos of Knossos, a figure in Greek mythology associated with Theseus, the labyrinth and the Minotaur. |
I don't suppose it will be relevant to the story but personally I would
(a) put the Minoans at 1000 - 800 BC
(b) reject the Bronze Age tag
(c) ascribe the name 'Minoans' more to the machinations of Renaissance cod-Classics writers and Sir Arthur Evans rather than the Minotaur. But, please
(d) do go on...
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
| The study examined the orientations of the palaces along navigational directions, where the grand rectangular central courts, oriented generally north south on the long axis, are considered the defining architectural characteristic of the Minoan palace construction. |
Perhaps I'm a bit slow on the uptake but 'generally north-south' is not my idea of 'navigational directions' though it will be fascinating to find out how they took their palaces with them to sea.
| The analysis showed that the axis of the Minoan palaces were oriented toward the rising or setting of important navigational stars |
A teensy objection here. If they're rectangular and oriented north-south, they cannot also be oriented to stars. And when people start talking of 'rising', 'setting', 'important' and 'navigational' stars, I reach for my bogus lists list. Though it may only may have...
| which may have helped sailors to navigate to the bustling commercial destinations in the Levant and Egypt. |
"Lookee there, cap'n, 'tis Andromeda rising."
"Aye, number one, steer three points to lubbard and we'll be in t'Levant afore ye know it."
"Aye, cap'n, but only symbolically..."
| The orientation of these palaces symbolised Crete’s special relationship with foreign trading hubs and the control that local elites wielded over specific sea lanes. | |
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
| The study suggests that the Minoans used “star paths”, or linear constellations (known in traditional Polynesian star sailing as kaveinga) to reach cities in the Mediterranean area, many of which have evidence of Minoan artefacts and frescos. |
I have to confess ignorance on this. It would be churlish to point out that Minoan artefacts and frescoes are not in themselves evidence of Minoans navigating from Crete to these many cities in the Mediterranean area.
| An example of a “star path” is Spica in the constellation of Virgo, which has a direct route connecting Knossos – the largest Minoan palace – to the important trading hub of Sidon (in modern Lebanon). |
Well, if you select a city (from 'many') and a star (from 'very many') you should be able to come up with one pointing to the other.
| According to legend, Sidon is the location of Zeus’s theriomorphic transformation into a bull and subsequent abduction of the Tyrian princess Europa. The pair crossed the Mediterranean to Crete, where she gave birth to King Minos, who heralded the beginning of the Minoan civilisation. |
I was being quite unfair. Sidon's the place all right. More tomorrow when I've got my breath back.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
|
|
|
|
| Similar to Knossos, the central court at the Minoan trading centre of Kato Zakro’s has an orientation that aligns toward a major Minoan trade contact along traditional navigational stars, while being exactly oriented with the Etesian winds. |
Talking of getting one's breath back, how do you orientate exactly with winds, no matter how regularly they blow. Not, I would have thought, that you'd need to if they blow regularly.
"Been to Hampton Court lately, Sir Francis? "
"Can't say that I have, Sir Walter."
"It's oriented to the trade winds."
"Damnee, I'll get an awayday. Thanks."
| A rhumb line toward the ancient city of Pelusium (Tel Farama), at the mouth of the Pellusiac branch of the River Nile, was at the constant azimuth, precisely aligned with the central court orientation. These discoveries demonstrate the sophisticated navigational abilities of the Minoans |
But only if you're going to Pelusium.
| which may have included the use of a star compass similar to those found in the Caroline islands, north of New Guinea. |
I'm surprised they needed 'em.
| It also challenges the commonly-held belief about the limitations of open-sea navigation, mathematics and interregional trade in the Bronze Age. |
I wasn't aware we had any but I'm all in favour of beliefs being challenged.
| Further research is needed to fully understand the link between specific Minoan palaces and partner cities, as well as the celestial navigation techniques used by the civilisation. |
Further? Fully understand? Way to go, I'd say.
| However, this study provides a fascinating glimpse into the economic and maritime heart of Minoan culture, and the powerful role celestial navigation played in the rise of this ancient civilisation. |
It provides a fascinating glimpse into the mind of the modern academic.
| The study concludes that the central courts of the palaces were primarily aligned toward important star paths aimed at distant coastal emporia such as Byblos and Sidon. This research has the potential to shed light on the trade networks and cultural exchanges that occurred in the ancient world and indicate the celestial navigation was being utilised a thousand years before the first historical mentions in Homer’s Odyssey. |
Blind leading the blind.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
The Library Index 
FAQ 
Search
Register
Profile 
Log in to check your private messages 
Log in 
