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Good King John? (British History)
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Wile E. Coyote


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Mick Harper wrote:
I am currently reading the Approved Orthodox Text for the Robin Hood/Templar period, "England Under The Norman and Angevin Kings, 1075-1225" (OUP) which I recommend to anyone who needs a good intro to the period (which turned out to include me!). The most interesting underlying message is that King John was the geezer that introduced most of the things we think of when it comes to Modern Britain, including Parliament itself. I cannot yet make up my mind whether this is because he was very good or very bad.


Magna Carta enshrined that the English Church should be free, and liberties inviolable, 320 years before the formal rejection of papal authority. So I think it is fair to say that John, good or bad, was well ahead of his time.
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Mick Harper
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Ooh, outing the Magna Carta would be cool. I did notice a rash of similar charters were issued in various European countries which I thought suspicious but you're the point guard on this one.
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Wile E. Coyote


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When you look at the coin evidence you find something mysterious.

On every "English" John coin, according to ortho, the legend on the obverse (head) side reads “HENRICVS REX”. (Henry, King) regardless of whether it is believed the king was a Henry, Richard or John.

There were no "English" coins bearing the name Richard or John (more correctly Iohannes-rex, as the letter J does not exist) although, according to ortho, Richard did issue some coinage in France, and John in Ireland.

This always struck Wiley as strange.
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Wile E. Coyote


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Of course if you were to ask why this usage of “HENRICVS REX” on Richard and John coins, was, you will be reassured by the answer along the lines of it was because of the popularity or relaibility of the established iconography.

"So this happened before with issues of other English kings?"

"Dont be stupid".
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Mick Harper
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Perhaps all the coins are in Austria where Richard is supposed to be in gaol with only Blondel to keep him company. "I'm fed up being King in his place," quoth John, "I must set about collecting his ransom as soon as."
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Wile E. Coyote


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There is a numistmatic link here for all non scriptocentric's studying Magna Carta here.

https://www.odihammagnacarta.com/interactive/coinage-at-the-time-of-king-john-and-henry-iii/
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Mick Harper
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They were all Plantagenets and Plantagenets began with Henry (the II) so it's just about possible they're doing a Julius on us i.e. all Roman emperors having Caesar on them.
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Wile E. Coyote


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Mick wrote:
They were all Plantagenets and Plantagenets began with Henry (the II) so it's just about possible they're doing a Julius on us i.e. all Roman emperors having Caesar on them.


Henry is a masculine given name derived from Old French Henri / Henry, itself derived from the Old Frankish name Heimeric, from Common Germanic *Haimarīks (from *haima- "home" and *rīk- "ruler")

If Home Ruler is possibly a title as you suggest.

Richard is a male given name. It originates, via Old French, from Old Frankish and is a compound of the words descending from Proto-Germanic *rīk- 'ruler, leader, king' and *hardu- 'strong, brave, hardy', and it therefore means 'strong in rule'.[1][2


Then Strong Ruler is also surely a title.

Maybe one is the Augustus the other a Caesar?
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