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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Hatty wrote: | | ...but replacing Mohammed with the legend “Moses is the Messenger of God†on Khazar coins seems completely bizarre (5 such coins, dated 837/8 |
Which is why these coins are among the very few I suspect to be real.
I should also point out that the "Moses" being referred to here may not (yet) have been (or become) the Moses of the Biblical Exodus.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Hatty wrote: | | They included two rare “Two Emperorsâ€, believed to depict King Alfred the Great of Wessex and Ceolwulf II of Mercia, revealing a previously unknown pact between the pair. | |
Genuine coins do not depict fake kings.
On the other hand, genuine coins may depict kings, misidentified.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Ishmael wrote: | | Hatty wrote: | | They included two rare “Two Emperorsâ€, believed to depict King Alfred the Great of Wessex and Ceolwulf II of Mercia, revealing a previously unknown pact between the pair. | |
Genuine coins do not depict fake kings.
On the other hand, genuine coins may depict kings, misidentified. |
Is a coin of Augustus depicting an Emperor? A God? A personification of Roman values? A Hero? Either would act as guarantor of value.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Christianity took off in 4th Century (Conventional chronology) at the same time many Roman coins were dedicated to Isis.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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These Isis coins mostly contain the legend VOTA PVBLICA. Folks in the Roman Empire assembled on January 3rd to offer a collective vow to the emperor. Coins were hammered and made out of brass.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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The Franks Medallion also known as the Porus medallion was discovered in what is modern Afghanistan in the late 19th century. It has ended up in the British museum by donation of Augustus Franks.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_1926-0402-1
The obverse shows a cavalryman, charging at an elephant with two warriors mounted on its back.
The reverse shows another horseman, standing and being crowned by a winged Victory.
Rather mysteriously a forgery of the medallion/coin has been discovered in a Hindu college and Calcutta museum. The explanation is that they can be shown to come from a mold taken from the "original" Franks in the British museum.
Clearly Franks or the British museum would not have allowed this to happen. Perish the thought.
So what is the explanation?
It is argued that the folks that sold the original to Franks secretly made a mold of the original. The original was then sold to Franks and the mold was then used to create the Indian fakes.
NB The forgers made a bit of a schoolboy error, in not keeping the original and selling Franks the first forged medallion.....as not having anything to compare it with Franks would surely have accepted the first forgery as genuine....
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Most ingenious (of you, Wiley). This is an example of 'disappearing original syndrome' we came across time and time again (if not every time!) when researching early medieval manuscripts. The copyist always has the original (i.e. the valuable object) in front of him yet it is only ever the copy (the not-very-valuable object) that survives the vicissitudes of time.
Also perhaps an example of the 'Dealers of Darjeeling' I speak of down in the Indus Treasures thread. PS The designs strike (geddit?) me as being rather modern, in an antique-y sort of way. What do you think?
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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After Stubbs but before Muybridge showed that horses legs cross in the gallop.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: |
Also perhaps an example of the 'Dealers of Darjeeling' I speak of down in the Indus Treasures thread. |
Some experts think the Porus Medallion is part of the hoard. There are ongoing arguments about what actually constituted the hoard. Or put another way, when there are so many arguments about what is, or what is not in a hoard, you can be fairly sure there never was one.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Porus is said to be 'an ancient Indian king' about whom nothing is recorded in India
| "Not known in Indian sources, the name Porus has been conjecturally interpreted as standing for Paurava, that is, the ruler of the Purus, a tribe known in that region from ancient Vedic times." |
though he seems to have existed 'anecdotally'
| Though not recorded in any available ancient Indian source, Ancient Greek historians describe the battle and the aftermath of Alexander's victory. Anecdotally, after the defeat and arrest of Porus in the war, Alexander asked Porus how he would like to be treated. |
Since there are no contemporaneous records of Alexander either, it's not much of a source
No specific findspot is given for the medallion, described as 'discovered in modern Afghanistan in the late 19th century', and it is admittedly impossible to date
The depictions of Alexander and Porus on the medallions are interesting, but it is the dating of the coin that makes it truly fascinating. It is almost impossible to tell exactly when the coin was minted due to the lack of any kind of legend. However the coin has been approximately dated to the very end of Alexander’s lifetime, minted in Babylon either shortly before or shortly after his death in 323 BC.
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https://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/numismatics/entry/the_porus_medallion/
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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Yes Hats...
| Any attempt to find the ancient battle site is complicated by considerable changes to the landscape over time.[23] For the moment, the most plausible location is just south of the city of Jhelum, where the ancient main road crossed the river and where a Buddhist source mentions a city that may be Nicaea.[23] The identification of the battle site near modern Jalalpur/Haranpur is certainly erroneous, as the river (in ancient times) meandered far from these cities. |
It's a chapter in the "The Boys Book of Imaginary battles....."
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| ...down in the Indus Treasures thread. |
Don’t seem to be able to find this. Is it hidden in some deep dark recess, inaccessible to those of my lowly caste?
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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It is in Split Level Ocean Paradigm...Best of Men.
Coin is definitely for those of all castes, you are welcome to stay, or go to the higher level.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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| It is in Split Level Ocean Paradigm...Best of Men. |
Thanks for the directions Wiley, but unfortunately I can’t find that either. I think my satnav maps are out of date.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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We will send Hatty away on a course so she can add your name to Der Few.
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