MemberlistThe Library Index  FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
War on Terrorism (Politics)
Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 63, 64, 65
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

(Jeez, that would be awful.)

No, that's the problem. It makes us feel happy.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

It's obvious (now I've read it was possibly a 'shoot down') that the plane was shot down by nervous anti-aircraft gunners. Having fired off a bunch of missiles at the Americans they were braced for retaliation on Tehran and along came an aircraft. This accounts for time and place too exactly for any other scenario to be entertained.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

It will however be interesting to see how the Iranians treat this. When fifty people died in the overexuberant burial rites of Soleimani, they added these to the tally of American-caused deaths without skipping a beat. Now there's a hundred and seventy-six more. It has a grim logic.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

So I turn on the telly and we get their resident air crash expert chuntering on about striation patterns on the cowling wreckage clearly pointing to an engine problem blah blah no evidence of any explosive intervention blah blah mustn't jump to conclusions blah blah very safe plane blah blah never had an accident in a hundred billion trillion airmiles blah blah Boeing's had its problems blah blah. Not a word -- except to dismiss it as pure speculation -- about Tehran being at that very hour the absolute epicentre of world aviational mayhem.

We get this all the time. Experts in their well-worn groove stubbornly refusing to spot they're in the wrong groove. All of them together. But you wait, when the truth comes out they suspected as much at the time. All of them together. That's what makes them experts. All of them together.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

The Iranians are doubling down. They must have known within minutes that it was one of their own missile teams and while it was acceptable to obfuscate while Trump (and they) were working out who was going to do what to whom, they should be coming clean now. The Americans are in no position to crow given they did the same thing with the Vincennes, so it would be embarrassing rather than strategic.

Instead, Bellingcat is reporting, the Iranians are bulldozing the crash site. Outa sight, outa mind? Outa the question, Iran. You ain't no Russia.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Congratulations are due to both Grant (for spotting the significance) and Wiley (for working out why) ahead of time. Rather too far ahead of time, one would be forgiven for thinking. If they are two different people. If they are people. We are plagued with what are called 'wisdom bots'. And congratulations too to Hatty for saving us from American domination. If baseball had turned out to be earlier than cricket we would never have heard the end of it. If it was Hatty.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

I have just watched (Conspiracy, History Channel) a theory that the CIA killed Aldo Moro, the Italian ex-prime minister. As opposed to the Red Brigade as was claimed (including by them) at the time. It was quite persuasive. Anybody got anything on this?
Send private message
Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Not mentioned by Sciascia, but arguably, I guess you could make a case that because Moro was on the point of making a historic pact bringing the communists into government when kidnapped (this is the reason Sciascia thinks the Italian government were reluctant to negotiate a Moro release), the CIA would also not have been unhappy to see Moro killed by the Red Brigades.....It's a short step then to a CIA plot.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

That was broadly the case being made in the programme except that the Red Brigade (by this time) was itself a CIA operation. The Italian government seemed to have been a bemused bystander. And it is true -- as opposed to being a conspiracy theory -- that post-war Italian governments were to some extent a CIA operation.

I suppose we ought to add, since it can be forgotten, that all these shenanigans not only worked but, as it were, worked well for all of us, not excluding the Italians. The Americans might have been complete bastards but they were angels in comparison to the alternative(s).

I suppose we ought to add, since it can be forgotten, that this situation ceased to exist at a point sometime after the Moro killing.
Send private message
Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
View user's profile
Reply with quote

Mick Harper wrote:
That was broadly the case being made in the programme except that the Red Brigade (by this time) was itself a CIA operation.


It's difficult to weigh this.

When spymaster William Stephenson, head of ahem, British Security Coordination, arrived in isolationist America, with strict instructions to get aid from the US, and the Yanks into the war, nobody realised he was setting up a chain of events that would do exactly that, and indeed set up with William Donovan the security of the western hemisphere under the CIA.

It was the Brits, with the help of a Canadian, that were the true originators.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stephenson.

It really depends when you start.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

I wasn't going this far back, though I agree with your broad characterisation. Apparently (the programme argued, with some justification) the Red Brigade had been dispersed, mainly by imprisonment but also because, I think by this time, of changing fashions, and the CIA set up a Red Brigade Mark II under its own control. The programme-makers actually had some proof of this, over and above an obscure talking head saying so, which is why I thought it worth bringing to your attention.

It's an important AE principle to take heed of conspiracy theorists because, whatever else they are, they are indefatigable researchers.
Send private message
Mick Harper
Site Admin

In: London
View user's profile
Reply with quote

The hypocrisy of Britain, France and Germany triggering the fault clauses of the Iran Nuclear deal when it is Britain, France and Germany which are at fault -- for not taking up the slack left by America's departure -- is breathtaking. But Boris has gone one step beyond by recommending the 'Trump Deal' to replace the current one. I know they always say it takes two to make a deal, Boris, but they didn't mean two countries versus the other two hundred.
Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 63, 64, 65

Jump to:  
Page 65 of 65

MemberlistThe Library Index  FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group