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Meetings with Remarkable Forgeries (British History)
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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Over on Twitter the chief editor of History Today announced

Today's the 1300th anniversary of the Codex Amiatinus going on a Very Long Holiday. It took 500 calves for over 2,000 pages and may have been the largest book ever made, weighs more than 75 pounds and needs two people to lift it.

Then she happily reminded her followers this book weighs as much as a fully-grown Great Dane so I reminded her the Codex is a copy of a lost original, supposedly destroyed by the Vikings sometime, somewhere ('in France'?). To which she replied

I'm not sure that any of this is right. The Amiatinus is original and extant (the picture you can see is of a modern facsimile, and is captioned as such on the webpage).


It is of course neither original nor extant. She then amended her original somewhat

Amiatinus was a copy, made along with two other copies, of the Codex Grandior. We only have a few surviving pages of those. Grandior is now lost. Regardless of all this, it is still the 1300th anniversary of Amiatinus leaving England.

As a medievalist she will know the written source of this 'history' is Bede and furthermore that the Codex was in a Cistercian monastery (Amiata, hence the name) in Italy for, officially, about a thousand years, so elaborated on this somewhat bizarre situation

Nearly all medieval manuscripts are copies of something else - it's how libraries and owners were able to build up collections of texts. There's nothing odd there. CA isn't unusual in how it came to be, although its size is notable.

A fair summary of the manuscript industry.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Today's the 1300th anniversary of the Codex Amiatinus going on a Very Long Holiday. It took 500 calves for over 2,000 pages and may have been the largest book ever made, weighs more than 75 pounds and needs two people to lift it.


The HT article is one in which the author unwittingly leaves this reader pretty convinced that the Codex was produced in Southern Italy.

One question is of course why the Italians are so blase about this.......

The answer might be here

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-complicated-political-lives-of-medieval-manuscripts

Another answer might be that it was an Italian, a certain De Rossi that came up with the idea that the lost name on the erased dedication, was in fact Ceolfridus. Nobody actually knows this, the words are erased. De Rossi knew his Bede and on the basis of this put forward a "reasonable inference" .

Further alterations were now suggested by learned academics and more of the dedication was divined by reasonable inference.....

On the basis of this chain of inferences... the works around Ceolfridus were scrutinised and a similar passage to the now reworked dedication of De Rossi and Others was found. This now constituted insurmountable proof.......

The Known facts that the Codex was located in Central Italy and written in Vulgate Latin and Greek was trumped by a chain of reasonable inferences (all logical guesswork based on inference).
The next assumption (after the discovery of origin) was that the Codex must still have been composed by Italian scribes living in Northumbria .....but of course the Codex was now becoming Angloed and before you knew it a reasonable inference was formed that the Codex must have been produced locally....by locals

To those scholars that might be a bit concerned that the most celebrated manuscript of the Latin Vulgate Bible produced within Christendom happens to be in Latin and Greek in a style that resembled those also produced within Southern Italy, we can provide a decisive rebuttal.....these local Northumbrian monks sought to match and outdo their continental neighbours in their attempts to impress the Pope, and what is more they clearly did.

It only goes to show those barely converted Northumbrian zealots were more productive than those who had become complacent in their Christian beliefs.......
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Mick Harper
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Images of an Australasian cockatoo have been discovered in a manuscript dating from 13th century Sicily, now held in the Vatican library.This finding reveals that trade in the waters in and around Australia's north was flourishing as far back as medieval times, linked into sea and overland routes to Indonesia, China, Egypt and beyond into Europe.

The four images of the white cockatoo feature in the Holy Roman Emperor, Frederick II of Sicily's De Arte Venandi cum Avibus (The Art of Hunting with Birds), which dates from between 1241 and 1248. These coloured drawings pre-date by 250 years what was previously believed to be the oldest European depiction of a cockatoo, in Andrea Mantegna's 1496 altarpiece Madonna della Vittoria
.

This is by no means impossible and yet is a fascinating example of careful ignoral. One view would be that thirteenth century depictions of any Australian fauna would be a blatant anachronism; the other view is that cockatoos were normal if exotic European birds from the thirteenth century onwards, albeit disappearing from view for 250 years. Since, for instance, kangaroos came as a major surprise the trade in Australian exotica was clearly, shall we say, selective.

But what would never occur to anyone is to say, "Hey, it's just possible we have an anachronism here, we'd better have another look at the Frederickiana in the Vatican Library." Stupor mundi he was called, but he was nothing compared to our own manuscript specialists.
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Mick Harper
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Gunnar Heinsohn has come up with the second part of his (as we would say) There is no Anglo-Saxon London thesis. I cannot tell what he thinks the status of Bede is. Perhaps someone could find out.

https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/05/22/gunnar-heinsohn-finding-bedes-missing-metropolis-part-two/
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Mick Harper
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Ishmael has just alerted me to this
The First Thanksgiving in America
I don't recommend you plough through it but it demonstrates pretty conclusively something that hadn't quite occurred to me in Forgeries
1. The more important the original event, the more likely it is to be subject to 'revisionism'
2. The more important the original event, the more likely it is that everyone (experts and laypersons alike) will assume "Oh, this is so important everything's been checked out ages ago."

One of the chief 'forgers' (if that is what they were) is the father of Jim Morrison (of The Doors) though I don't think that's relevant.
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Wile E. Coyote


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Before picking your favourite Augustinian attribute, you might wish to address the more basic question: have we got the right Augustine? Augustine (of Canterbury) is very famous to us Brits because we believe he founded Christianity in Britain, but to everybody else, St Augustine means St Augustine of Hippo......


Same cause Same effect....

They are both Augustus.

This is the key to solving the problem.
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Mick Harper
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It hadn't occurred to me before but St Augustine (of Hippo) was the dude who justified Christians killing people (the Just War doctrine) in contradiction to his line manager, Mr Jesus Christ Esq, who expressly forbade any such thing. Therefore we can reasonably conclude that St Augustine's writings were written at the time of the Crusades (eleventh century onwards).
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Wile E. Coyote


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Mick Harper wrote:
It hadn't occurred to me before but St Augustine (of Hippo) was the dude who justified Christians killing people (the Just War doctrine) in contradiction to his line manager, Mr Jesus Christ Esq, who expressly forbade any such thing. Therefore we can reasonably conclude that St Augustine's writings were written at the time of the Crusades (eleventh century onwards).


Augustine was building on St Ambrose.

But which Ambrose is that?

Aurelius Ambrosius[a] (c. 340 – 397), better known in English as Ambrose (/ˈæmbroʊz/), bishop of Milan........


Or the not to be confused with......

Ambrosius Aurelianus (Welsh: Emrys Wledig; Anglicised as Ambrose Aurelian and called Aurelius Ambrosius in the Historia Regum Britanniae and elsewhere) was a war leader of the Romano-British who won an important battle against the Anglo-Saxons in the 5th century, according to Gildas. He also appeared independently in the legends of the Britons, beginning with the 9th-century Historia Brittonum. Eventually he was transformed into the uncle of King Arthur, the brother of Arthur's father Uther Pendragon, and predeceases them both.


Gildas= Gold

Aurelias=Golden



a gentleman who, perhaps alone of the Romans, had survived the shock of this notable storm. Certainly his parents, who had worn the purple, were slain in it. His descendants in our day have become greatly inferior to their grandfather's [avita] excellence. Under him our people regained their strength, and challenged the victors to battle. The Lord assented, and the battle went their way.[4]


Purple to gold =Cyclical= Sun Worship.
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Hatty
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Therefore we can reasonably conclude that St Augustine's writings were written at the time of the Crusades (eleventh century onwards).

Augustine is notable for being from North Africa. The history of Hippo is Phoenician, Roman, Berber. The strange thing is that the Muslim hordes are supposed to have crossed over within a decade from North Africa to Spain where they would stay for eight hundred years, at least in Andalucia.

Even more weirdly the Muslim invaders are supposed to have been the conduit between Classical learning and Dark Age Europe because Spain had forgotten/lost the Classical learning of the preceding Roman occupation (only five hundred years, at least in Andalucia), as indeed happened in Britain.
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Wile E. Coyote


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Paul (no, not that Paul, err..another one) of Orosius is the go between Africa, Bethlehem and Rome .....his history and geography is now widely criticized, it is a once accepted paradigm (but from when?) that has now run its course.

Of course that makes it much more interesting than most modern dross.
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Wile E. Coyote


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Paul does not use modern chronology he calculates using Fasti Consulares Capitolini. His obsession is with the number 7.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Mick Harper wrote:
It hadn't occurred to me before but St Augustine (of Hippo) was the dude who justified Christians killing people (the Just War doctrine) in contradiction to his line manager, Mr Jesus Christ Esq, who expressly forbade any such thing. Therefore we can reasonably conclude that St Augustine's writings were written at the time of the Crusades (eleventh century onwards).


If only the crusades had happened.

Hint: They didn't.

My own hypothesis: A real war was later re-packaged as propaganda at a time when Muslims actually were a problem.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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My larger hypothesis: That real war is also known as The English Civil War.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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at a time when Muslims actually were a problem.

Twin Towers? I like it.
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Wile E. Coyote


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MRF wrote:
Before picking your favourite Augustinian attribute, you might wish to address the more basic question: have we got the right Augustine? Augustine (of Canterbury) is very famous to us Brits because we believe he founded Christianity in Britain, but to everybody else, St Augustine means St Augustine of Hippo......

Wile E. Coyote wrote:

Same cause Same effect....

They are both Augustus.

This is the key to solving the problem.


This leaves the question of who was Augustus?

Carotta's paradigm (Jesus is Julius) produces an interesting answer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Carotta

Augustus is John.....

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God
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