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All Things Roman (History)
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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If you run your eye over the list of Norman names

Aimery
Arnoul/ Arnaud
Aubrey (Alberic)

Baudouin/ Baldric
Baudry
Bernard

Engenulf
Enguerrand
Eudes (Odo)

Foulques (Fulk)

Gauthier
Geoffrey/ Godfrey
Gérard
Gervais
Gilbert
Giselbert
Goubert
Guascelin (Walkelin)
Guérin (Warin)
Guillaume/ William
Guy (Guido)

Henry
Herluin
Hubert
Hugues (Hugh)

Ives (Yves)

Jean (John)

Nicolas

Ralph
Ranulf
Raoul
Renaud
Richard
Robert
Rodolph
Roger

Stephen

Turstin

Vital

Wadard
Walter

you'll see there are even fewer resemblances to Roman names than to Viking ones. In fact, apart from Vital, there aren't any...
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Mick Harper wrote:
I think earth comes before wood. The Roman Army built earth ramparted camps every night on the march. However your post reminds me that one more piece of evidence that the Normans more or less directly followed the Romans is that both built stone fortifications and the 'six hundred years' in between didn't.


Great, Wiley devises a cunning series of posts on Reverse Engineering and MH spoils the fun...... on post 2. I didn't even reach rubble.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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I realise Bettany Hughes has to ham it up but spending five lip-smacking minutes on a Vestal Virgin undergoing 'ritual human sacrifice' to appease the Gods over Cannae is a bit much. In all societies that have sacred virgins it is a capital offence to have sex with them, including for them. We're still doing it today in the closely parallel example of executing adulterous women. And even, I suppose, Ruth Ellis. She was for Suez I expect.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Then five minutes later she and the local archaeo are lipsmacking over Roman genocide (of "80-90% of the population") because the archaeological evidence dries up. Aside from the fact that archaeology simply cannot be mapped to populations and dates with anything like this kind of exactitude, it never occurred to either of them that having two large armies campaigning in your neck of the woods usually means you and the family hightail out of that neck of the woods without needing genocide to hurry you on your way. But that would be too, too boring.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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From a book by Philip Hoare I've learned that in woodland areas Romany children are, or were, wrapped in rabbit skins in winter. So two thoughts occurred: is the song about Baby Bunting wrapped in rabbit skin referring to a well-known Romany custom? The Romany are very much associated with poaching/ hunting rabbits. They also seem to be associated with woodland, in England anyway, though perhaps as part of their semi-outcast status
    My mother said I never should
    Play with the gypsies in the wood

Bunting is made up of gaudy rags or pieces of cloth which seems to reflect the traditional perception of gypsy clothing.

Secondly, might not rabbits have been introduced, or maybe borrowed, by Romany? Most historians claim the Romans introduced rabbits into Britain though some think it was via the Normans, presumably based on documentary evidence. It's unlikely there'll be documents or evidence attached to Romany practices.

Gypsy is supposed to refer to 'Egyptian'. Why would people think gypsies originate from Egypt? Something about deserts perhaps? Rabbits too are said to be 'from the desert'.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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As we have found out 'desert' had a technical meaning in the British Isles ('disert' in Ireland) and corresponds to something like rough (but still of value) pasture land. I suppose the TME interpretation would be that rabbits are hares that have been domesticated to exploit places unsuited to other domesticates. It is another TME theory that gypsies are ex-Megalithics. It is another TME theory that hermits, servants of Hermes, who are so strongly associated with 'deserts', are Megalithics.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Call me a coward if you like. I call it common sense. When I sign up to as Aquilifer I want to follow a general with a good a name.

I mean look at poor Gaius Excrementum, he was carrying the standard for Crassus, they reach the Euphrates, all is tickety-boo and the standard then goes all funny, it plants itself in the ground and can't be budged. What does Crassus do? Yep he forges on......Net result biggest militray disaster at Carrhaee and it took good old (augury) Augustus 33 years to get the Eagles back.

All because folks were stupid enough to follow someone called Crassus who didn't heed the auguries.

BTW what sort of general bases his battle plan on the opposition running out of arrows......

Anyway history records that Surena (or Suren or Sourena) "the heroic one" (it was the name that did it) thumped the Romans at Carhaee.....
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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What struck me as odd was that Pompey, who was the eastern specialist, got sent to Spain, Crassus the businessman was sent out to take on Rome's most dangerous enemy and Caesar stayed in Gaul. Who was minding the shop in Rome?
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Not being particularly good losers the Romans attempt to retrieve their precious standards.

Caesar was at the time of his assassination planning an invasion of Parthia. Hstory intervenes.

Still....the Second Triumvirate is formed, and one Marcus Antonius (Antony) has a crack at getting the Aquilae back. It doesn't go well and some more Eagles are lost. The Parthians now have 4 eagles not 2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony%27s_Parthian_War
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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The Roman Standard Signa Romanum was a symbolic banner, attached to a staff or pole, which identified a Roman legion (infantry) or Equites (cavalry).

Legions were normally identified by eagles although there could be other totemic animals like (aha) a Wolf. Cavalry units used serpents (Draconarius). Auro take note.

The Standard appears to have benn as a means of communication in battle. The Standard bearer could direct the legion foward, back or.... as against the Parthians as a last rallying point.

If lost the Romans would fight for their eagles or serpents back.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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...or Equites (cavalry) ... Cavalry units used serpents (Draconarius)

That's interesting. Equites were more normally identified as a merchant class--the long distance corn trade was in their hands for instance--and in the Megalithic Empire we identified them as megalithics. More investigation, please.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Wile E. Coyote wrote:
Not being particularly good losers the Romans attempt to retrieve their precious standards.

Caesar was at the time of his assassination planning an invasion of Parthia. Hstory intervenes.

Still....the Second Triumvirate is formed, and one Marcus Antonius (Antony) has a crack at getting the Aquilae back. It doesn't go well and some more Eagles are lost. The Parthians now have 4 eagles not 2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony%27s_Parthian_War


My poor research methods betray me (I refuse to use a christian linear chronology... preferring cycles), the Parthians had captured 2 further Aquila in 40 BC - defeat of Decidius Saxa by a combined Roman-Parthian force under Quintus Labienus near Antioch. By the time of Augustus, revenge against the Parthians is very much in the Roman mindset.....
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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...or Equites (cavalry) ... Cavalry units used serpents (Draconarius)

Equites owned mining rights which may have been considerably more profitable than the land itself. Mines and dragons (again).

In Spain Roman mine-owners successfully exploited the gold mines of Las Medulas and the richest mining region, Rio Tinto, following the defeat of the Carthaginians (Phoenicians). The Rio Tinto mines were then apparently ignored or forgotten about for half a millennium. Another unexplained gap.
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Boreades


In: finity and beyond
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Ishmael wrote:
Komorikid wrote:
The remains of a garum production house in Pompeii were used last year to date the Vesuvius eruption.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/09/29/pompeii-fish-sauce.html


Analysis of their contents basically confirmed that Mount Vesuvius most likely erupted on 24 August 79 A.D., as reported by the Roman historian Pliny the Younger in his account on the eruption," Annamaria Ciarallo, director of Pompeii's Applied Research Laboratory told Discovery News.


And that establishes for me the total unreliability of all "scientific" dating methods. The whole thing is a scam.

There is no way that Pompeii was destroyed so early as 79AD. It defies all credulity.


Perhaps it was because of the Best Before Date on the bottles of sauce?
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Boreades


In: finity and beyond
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Hatty wrote:
In Spain Roman mine-owners successfully exploited the gold mines of Las Medulas and the richest mining region, Rio Tinto, following the defeat of the Carthaginians (Phoenicians). The Rio Tinto mines were then apparently ignored or forgotten about for half a millennium. Another unexplained gap.


The semi-officially-approved history of Rio Tinto Zinc makes it clear that one empire took over from another.

Since antiquity, a site along the Rio Tinto, in the Andalusian Province of Huelva in Spain has been mined for copper, silver, gold, and other minerals. Around 3000 BC, Iberians and Tartessians began mining the site, followed by the Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Visigoths, and Moors. After a period of abandonment, the mines were rediscovered in 1556 and the Spanish government began operating them once again in 1724.

However, Spain's mining operations there were inefficient, and the government itself was otherwise distracted by political and financial crises, leading the government to sell the mines in 1873 at a price later determined to be well below actual value. The purchasers of the mine were led by Hugh Matheson's Matheson and Company, which ultimately formed a syndicate consisting of Deutsche Bank (56% ownership), Matheson (24%), and the civil engineering firm Clark, Punchard and Company (20%). At an auction held by the Spanish government for sale of the mine on 14 February 1873, the group won with a bid GB£3,680,000 (ESP 92,800,000). The bid also specified that Spain permanently relinquish any right to claim royalties on the mine's production. Following purchase of the mine, the syndicate launched the Rio Tinto Company, registering it on 29 March 1873. At the end of the 1880s, control of the firm was passed to the Rothschild family, who greatly increased the scale of its mining operations.


Why there was a long gap remains unclear. Was there no big demand for Rio Tinto metals for 500 years? Or had we all been busy getting metals from elsewhere?
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