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A Dove Tale (NEW CONCEPTS)
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Boreades


In: finity and beyond
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Well, thank goodness for that.

I'm just waiting for the penny to drop and AEL/TME folks to start noticing that all the Celtic Saints came from the same families as the Breton/Cornish/Welsh/British royal families.

Pre-Roman Christianity was a family business.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Another post I can make no sense of.
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Ishmael


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Hatty wrote:
It may be that some of the well-known elements of intrigue, betrayal, doves were borrowed from the Columbus story.


I am still very eager to learn what these "well-known elements" are! How does this story parallel the Columbus story? Spell it out for me.
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Hatty
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Legends often seem to coincide or to have been conflated. Historians tend to see things in isolation and their mindset doesn't like connections, if they even notice them.

St Kenelm, the boy-king of Mercia who was murdered aged 7, is traditionally said to have died on 3rd November. His death was 'seen' by an old crone, his nanny, in a dream. The body was discovered because of a bright light shining above the thicket where it was buried.

Rombald/Romwald, also a boy-martyr, is supposed to have been part of the Mercian royal family; his feast day is 3rd November.

Rumwold, ST, the miraculous infant, was, according to an anonymous mid-eleventh-century Latin Life ( BHL 7385), born in the middle of a field, to an unnamed daughter of King * Penda of * Mercia , and her unnamed husband, a king of * Northumbria . Emerging from the womb, the baby exclaimed ‘I am a Christian’, demanded baptism, preached a sermon on Divine Wisdom and the Trinity, and on the Christian life, prophesied his own death in three days’ time, and gave instructions about the burial and two translations of his remains. It is difficult to find a context for this extraordinary tale, full of anachronisms, and Rumwold's cult can only be traced back to the tenth century from liturgical evidence. The places named in the text are King's Sutton, Brackley and Buckingham, all close together and all, quite remarkably, still preserving traces of a popular cult of Rumwold (healing wells). Feast: 3 November.

Rombold is also 'an Irish or Scottish missionary' and the patron saint of Mechelen in Flanders where St Rombold's Cathedral is a prominent landmark. There's a rather strange story attached to the cathedral, with a 'bright light' motif, as the inhabitants of Mechelen were nicknamed Maneblussers ('Moon Extinguishers') because they'd apparently mistaken the light of the moon on the windows for a fire in the cathedral tower.

It's a bit reminiscent of some story or other about the idiot (Cornish? Welsh?) who thinks the moon is drowning in a lake or well and tries to rescue it...can't remember the source but it may relate to 'real' surveying methods, a la Eratosthenes. The Mechelen fire story is given a date, the 'full moon of 27th January 1687' which is factually correct as full moon in January 1687 was 27-29. It also coincides with the death on 28th January 1687 of Johannes Hevelius, a leading astronomer and fellow of the Royal Society, who was called 'the founder of lunar topography'.
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Hatty
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The places in these stories clearly existed long before the saints themselves. The stories superimposed on the springs, wells, megalithic sites etc. are founded in popular myths though the people appear to have been 'real'. But no matter how widespread their individual cults, the old names remained.

It may be that the conquest of Mexico was the decisive victory for Spain in the New World and that the name America advertised that fact. 'Amerigo' was catapaulted into the limelight because his name fitted.
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Ishmael


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Wow. I don't follow any of this. Don't see how any of it relates to America or Columbus.
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Ishmael


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Was this bird used by mariners navigating the Atlantic ocean?

'Unique' bird migration discovered

Note that the Bird just happens to fly to Peru---site of the Nazca Lines.
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Ishmael


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The Orinoco Goose migrates laterally, west-to-east from Peru to Bolivia. Not a great distance perhaps, but it does get you over the Andes.

Notably, this bird is endangered, which is suggestive of its being a domesticated breed.

For that matter, that scottish bird is down to 15-to-50 existent breeding pairs. Not a healthy population!
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Ishmael


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Why are Cardinals called Cardinals?
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Hatty
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Just found out that Yonah is the Hebrew word for dove. It is pronounced the same way as Iona, the island that is always linked with St Columba, columba being Latin for dove. That seems too odd to not mean something but I don’t know what.

There's no evidence of an early church on Iona but perhaps there was something else going on (as with Cuddy ducks over on the Farnes)?
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Ishmael


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This is absolutely stunning. Something very strange is afoot!
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Mick Harper
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Clearly then Christopher Columbus is a made up name. I am not prepared to go as far as Ishmael (I expect) in assuming Christopher Columbus is a made up person. But made up by whom? I suppose the least revisionist case would be that Genovese master mariners were Megalithics, and they adopted appropriate surnames to signal the fact to other Megalithics. Perhaps someone would dive into this to find out.
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Ishmael


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Try Magellan next.

MAGE--llan
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Hatty
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There is a linguistic connection, in Latin, between keeping pigeons and burials

A columbarium (pl. columbaria) is a place for the respectful and usually public storage of cinerary urns (i.e., urns holding a deceased's cremated remains). The term comes from the Latin "columba" (dove) and originally referred to compartmentalized housing for doves and pigeons called a dovecote.

Could this rather odd conjunction of meanings be why some offshore islands are said to be burial places of saints and such, but originally intended to house pigeons? Beehive huts?

Perhaps doves were linked to souls, sympathetically as anthropologists call it. Hermes, the messenger, was traditionally seen as escorting the souls of the dead (aka geese flying north in the autumn). Rest in peace.
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Boreades


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Mick Harper wrote:
I suppose the least revisionist case would be that Genovese master mariners were Megalithics, and they adopted appropriate surnames to signal the fact to other Megalithics. Perhaps someone would dive into this to find out.


I did. You slightly poo-poo'd it.

I get sent interesting emails from a zero-emissions sailing outfit.

http://sailboatproject.org/sail-cargo-se/

They are sailing an old-fashioned sailing ketch Nordlys (built 1873 on the Isle of Wight) from Portugal to Devon each early-summer with a crop of Portugese organic olives and olive oil. Yours for just £50 per 5 litres. Mostly aimed at the organic sales market based around Brighton and Newhaven. Or Croydon or Hackney.

They say:

Cabotage can be loosely defined as shipping cargo along the coast from port to port and this is our inspiration for this year’s delivery of organic olive oil and whole olives from Porto to Newhaven, as well as Fleur de Sel sea salt from the Breton island of Noirmoutier. Derived from Cabo, Portuguese for headland, the Caboteurs of the 1873 engineless sailing ketch Nordlys will deliver our cargo from Porto, via Noirmoutier, to Brixham in the south west. From there we will transfer the cargo to our own Jalapeno and set sail for Newhaven.


Cabotage : OK got that, so is Cabo really the Portuguese for headland? Or is Cabotage the art of moving cargo via coastal navigation from Cabo to Cabo?

"Cabotage" also reminds me of John Cabot / Giovanni Caboto. A pseudoname for his trade? Like a John Smith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cabot
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