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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Problems of Everyday Life No 145
I had my Freedom Pass nicked the other day (that's the one that gives me free travel anywhere in London) and won't get a replacement for several days. Needing to travel by bus I resigned myself to paying the fare. "How much is it?" I asked this bloke I know.
"Fucked if I know," he said, "I always use my Freedom Pass."
"Oh well, can't be helped, " I said.
"You can't pay on the buses any more," he said.
"So what do I do?"
"Fucked if I know," he said.
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Boreades
In: finity and beyond
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| Mick Harper wrote: | Problems of Everyday Life No 145
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What's happened to your Senior Citizens Card?
Where's the First Class seating?
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Boreades
In: finity and beyond
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Boreades
In: finity and beyond
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On my journey to work this morning, on a whim, I decided to perpetrate a Random Act Of Kindness, and stop so that another motorist could pull out of the side turning in front of me.
So I stopped, and flashed my lights, indicating my awareness of her situation.
But she looked blankly at me and did nothing.
So I made a hand gesture, encouraging her to pull out and get a move on.
Imagine my surprise and dismay when, as she pulled out out, she made a hand gesture of her own, and waved two fingers at me!
I feel that the AEL inmates may have some special theories on the origins of this especially British insult. Preferably something better than English archers at Agincourt, demonstrating to nearby French onlookers that they still had their bow-drawing digits attached.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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I thinking about this myself just days ago!
Being an Agincourt skeptic, I thought then that the origin must be found elsewhere. So where?
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Duncan71
In: Calgary
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There are so many possibilities but here are just a few speculations:
1) Calculation - It represents a number in a hand-based counting system used before writing or the abacus.
2) Hunting - It represents an animal (horns or wings).
3) Maritime travel - It is a gesture to indicate a hazard to watch out for or action to be taken while communicating aboard ships on a loud, stormy sea. (It also looks like a sextant or other navigational device).
4) Religious - It's a symbol of some deity or ritual associated with a pre-Christian religion.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| 2) Hunting - It represents an animal (horns or wings). |
Horns are what come to mind as in cuckold. The gesture is definitely intended to be an insult and recognised everywhere.
Wiki says that cuckold is to do with cuckoos laying their eggs in other birds' nests which sounds a bit dodgy. Cocks would be a more suitable analogy for somewhat indiscriminate virility [Belafonte's rooster song is a classic] with the added pun of cock-as-penis.
As for horns on cuckolds, it seems to be an almost global metaphor that apparently refers to stags defeated in rutting battles losing their antlers, which would tie in with reindeer-herding and .. well, you know.
| In Western traditions, cuckolds have sometimes been described as "wearing the horns of a cuckold" or just "wearing the horns." This is an allusion to the mating habits of stags, who forfeit their mates when they are defeated by another male |
Could be rabbits' ears of course.Or asses'. But all languages refer unequivocally to horns so reindeer seem the obvious candidate.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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It's the gap between the fingers (rather than the fingers themselves) that conveys the insult.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Then why the emphasis on cuckolds' horns?
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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It's nowt to do with horns.
The "V" simply represents female genitalia... as in Vulva, Vagina or even Venus.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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That sounds more like it.
Its the equivalent of calling a man a "pussy."
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Duncan71
In: Calgary
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| Its the equivalent of calling a man a "pussy." |
I tend to agree as another famous insulting gesture is the middle finger. In this case it is a symbol of the phallus. The bent over fingers on either side of the middle one represent testicles.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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Precisely. On one side the Atlantic, the masculine gesture became dominant while on the other side, the feminine gesture.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Duncan71 wrote: | There are so many possibilities but here are just a few speculations:
1) Calculation - It represents a number in a hand-based counting system used before writing or the abacus.
2) Hunting - It represents an animal (horns or wings).
3) Maritime travel - It is a gesture to indicate a hazard to watch out for or action to be taken while communicating aboard ships on a loud, stormy sea. (It also looks like a sextant or other navigational device).
4) Religious - It's a symbol of some deity or ritual associated with a pre-Christian religion. |
For Brits you put your arms in the air in the victory (wing) shape. You see boxers and football players do this all the time after they win. Boxers also stand on the ropes. For us the V is the glorious, soaring scoring V wing shape. The lower classes do the finger V as they can only imply that they will be victorious in the future.
| Man U fan wrote: |
The "V" simply represents female genitalia... as in Vulva, Vagina or even Venus. |
Continentals do this indecent hip girating thing when they score. They also do the one finger, when our British refs aren't looking. Clearly Johnny Foreigner is too scared to use both fingers.
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Chad
In: Ramsbottom
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When performed properly, the two fingered gesture is accompanied by a back and forth wrist action, that emulates pelvic thrusting.
You are not calling somebody a pussy (or even a twat) you are actually telling them to "fuck off".
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