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Boreades
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In: finity and beyond
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What I've noticed (besides the pretty patterns) is that one triplet is usually joined to a neighbouring triplet in a specific way.
Start with one triplet:
The second triplet starts from the centre of the first triplet.
The third triplet starts from the centre of the second triplet.
Edit: this is just a schematic, to demonstrate the relationship. I'm not suggesting they have to be physically at right-angles to each other.
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Boreades
![](images/avatars/52499736160fee046dbac7.jpg)
In: finity and beyond
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The kind of questions that surface are:
- Do these T shapes mean anything?
- Why would you choose that kind of relationship?
- In ancient history, was the letter T symbolic of anything special?
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
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In: London
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Surely Milton Hill and Knock Castle have to be at a given angle to the original line (say, a right angle), or a given interval (say, equidistant). Otherwise you can choose any feature on one side of your chosen line and any feature on the other side of your chosen line and announce they are significant.
One of the founding principles of the AEL is that nobody is allowed to diss a new theory until it has been allowed a goodish run but in this case, I think you should dispose of this objection even at this early stage. In case I've got it all wrong!
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Boreades
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In: finity and beyond
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We're repeatedly told by Ortho-types that anything pre-Roman is prehistoric, because written records in Britain only began with the Romans. But there's plenty of evidence of Greeks and Phoenicians being in contact with Britain and Ireland.
As these shapes pre-date the arrival of Latin in Britain, if we want to look at any alphabets, we need to look at Greek or Phoenician.
We're told here that the Greek alphabet was based on the Phoenician alphabet.
The Greek letter Tau was based on the Phoenician letter Taw (X). Apparently X means a mark. Or X marks the spot?
I think TME has already had posts on the Celtic Cross as a boundary marker and/or navigation tool.
At this point, I have a few problems.
If we take it literally, Tau sounds very like Tor, and many of these hill tops (in Devon and Cornwall) are called Tors. Dartmoor especially is covered in them, which could get me excited. But would I be confusing the pattern with the parts of the pattern?
There are no Tor hilltops in Dorset, because a Tor is just supposed to be a hill with naturally occuring rocks on the top. But what does a Tor get called after humans have taken all the rocks and rearranged them in a ring on top of the hill to make an enclosure?
I'm not sure why Glastonbury Tor is called a Tor.
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Chad
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In: Ramsbottom
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Boreades wrote: | Has anyone spotted the basic building-block in the pattern yet? |
At first I thought it was the Christmas tree... but then you went and switched to the blue wigwam!
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Boreades
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In: finity and beyond
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Mick Harper wrote: | Surely Milton Hill and Knock Castle have to be at a given angle to the original line (say, a right angle), or a given interval (say, equidistant). Otherwise you can choose any feature on one side of your chosen line and any feature on the other side of your chosen line and announce they are significant. |
Does it need to be a perfect right-angle? I'm not sure where that requirement slipped in. Likewise it would be nice if Silbury to Milk Hill and Milk Hill to Casterley were equidistant, but they're not, and I'm not sure why they would need to be. I'm only calling three-things significant if they do align.
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Boreades
![](images/avatars/52499736160fee046dbac7.jpg)
In: finity and beyond
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Chad wrote: | Boreades wrote: | Has anyone spotted the basic building-block in the pattern yet? |
At first I thought it was the Christmas tree... but then you went and switched to the blue wigwam! |
Sorry, my fault for playing with the icons available as position markers in Google Earth. Trying to choose one that looked most like a small hill.
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Boreades
![](images/avatars/52499736160fee046dbac7.jpg)
In: finity and beyond
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As a curiosity, in Topology (the mathematical study of shapes and spaces), the set of items is called a Tau. So perhaps I should claim these trade navigation shapes are topological T's, not literal T's?
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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I am a bit unsure why we are marking harbours against hill top enclosures.
Can you clarify?
We get to a harbour, then we head for a hill as travelling along a hillrange is a good way of traveling straightish and avoiding rivers.
Then we move along the hillrange towards something like a trading center?
This results in a triangle or triangles with other harbors and ramges?
Not quite sure?
Intriguing.
You might need to spell it out for Coyote.
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Boreades
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In: finity and beyond
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Wile E. Coyote wrote: | I am a bit unsure why we are marking harbours against hill top enclosures.
Can you clarify?
We get to a harbour, then we head for a hill as travelling along a hillrange is a good way of traveling straightish and avoiding rivers.
Then we move along the hillrange towards something like a trading center?
This results in a triangle or triangles with other harbors and ramges?
Not quite sure?
Intriguing.
You might need to spell it out for Coyote. |
As so many churches, fords, bridges and the like are relatively modern items in the landscape, I'm trying to find the oldest places for which there is firm evidence they are pre-Roman at least. We know that many so-called Roman roads were already there before the Romans. Long, straight well-maintained roads that ironically helped the Romans execute a genocidal blitzkrieg across much of North West Europe. But that's another story.
Assuming it was the Celts that built these long straight roads that aligned places over long distances, and if so, why?
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Boreades
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In: finity and beyond
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Origins
As part of establishing any historical basis for these alignments (if real), sooner or later we have to ask who could have made them, and why? The hill forts and enclosures date from The Late Bronze Age and The Iron Age, up to c.100BC. In terms of cultures and peoples, this implies Celts and Britons. There are pitifully few examples of Celtic or British writing from the period, let alone historical accounts. Which led many historians to assume that Celts and Britons were uncivilised and illiterate. Not true, as several Roman historical records convey their astonishment at the sophisticated technology of the Celts, some of whom spoke to the Romans in Greek!
Were there Celtic historical records elsewhere that offer us any help? Possibly there are, in Ireland. The Book Of Invasions is a compilation of legends, written in the 11th Century.
For the following, I thank Graham Robb's Ancient Paths.
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Boreades
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In: finity and beyond
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The Hill of Uisneach, is the centre of Ireland and it marked the meeting point of the borders of the ancient regions or Kingdoms of Leinster, Munster, Connacht, Ulster and Meath. In legend, Uisneach was chosen by the Druids as the centre point from wihch they surveyed the whole of Ireland. Surveying suggest some kind of measurement along aligned paths. Is there any hint of where these paths would have led to?
Yes, spiritually-significant historic centres in each of the four historic regions
Ráth Cruachan - the traditional capital of the Connachta (the Connacht region)
Cnoc Ãine - historically important site in Limerick and Munster
Dún Ailinne - another of the great Royal Sites of Ireland
and Emaın Macha
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Boreades
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In: finity and beyond
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The line from Rath Cruahcan to Dun Ailinne is also a Winter Solstice alignment.
The Book Of Invasions says that this earliest division of Ireland was done by a people called the Fir Bolg, after they had travelled through Greece and Spain.
Another triplet of interest is the one that goes north-south through Uisneach.
It connects Grianan of Aileach with St. Declan's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decl%C3%A1n_of_Ardmore
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Boreades
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In: finity and beyond
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By another strange coincidence, the Great Circle route from the most south-west tip of Spain, through the ancient Tower of Hercules arrives in Ireland at St. Declan's.
We are told:
The tower is known to have existed by the 2nd century, built or perhaps rebuilt under Trajan, possibly on foundations following a design that was Phoenician in origin.
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The position of the lighthouse is not understood since it strongly favours an approach from the northwest. It does not provide a guide to safe harbour to vessels approaching either up the West coast of the Iberian peninsula, nor along the Rias of the north coast. This would imply that the lighthouse was built to satisfy the needs of regular traffic coming in from the Atlantic, perhaps taking a Westerly route from the Cap Gris Nez area to avoid the Bay of Biscay or direct from Ireland or South West England.
My emphasis.
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Boreades
![](images/avatars/52499736160fee046dbac7.jpg)
In: finity and beyond
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AE-folks will recognise the closeness of Cape Finisterre to the Tower of Hercules.
At this point, I'm losing my own direction. Irish History has much that helps us delve into the pre-Roman world. But where am I going to find the equivalents for pre-Roman Britain?
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