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Did The Dark Ages Exist? (NEW CONCEPTS)
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Now it takes very little imagination to surmise that what we are dealing with here are two different vessels, two different voyages and likely two different navigators. On one hand we have an Atlantic fleet commander whose five ships never enter the Pacific. On the other we have a ship's captain who explores the Pacific aboard a vessel that never saw the Atlantic.

Interesting. Two different voyages of discovery -- each approaching (and mapping) North America from opposite sides. Neither having any knowledge of the unexplored coastline.

Have we not seen expressly this scenario reflected in our map of 1650?

Could it be that while our pirate adventurer and other explorers were mapping the Atlantic coast of the Americas, it was the mysterious and unnamed captain of the Golden Hind who was mapping the west coast. Might it be his chart, employing a foreign projection, that European cartographers mistakenly compressed to the size of California?

So on whose behalf was that voyage made? Was it Elizabeth I who sent the Hind to California? Perhaps. But if so, she was not sitting on any throne of England.

Where that ruler sat -- that sultan of the eastern seas -- we likely see reflected in the vessel's name -- which was likely not its name at all. I say that we are seeing here a mistaken rendering of that imperial entity that commissioned this voyage -- or voyages.

The Golden Hind is the Golden Horde.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Here's a challenge.

Name the famous explorer who was killed by pacific island natives during (what would prove to be) a successful voyage to circumnavigate the globe.
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Mick Harper
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In: London
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Don't just book it, James Cook it!
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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You've got the answer right.

The judges would also have accepted Ferdinand Magellan.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Not impressed yet?

Tough crowd.

Well we will just have to give you more.

First -- a correction.

Cook was not killed by south pacific islanders while circumnavigating the Globe. He had circumnavigated the Globe previously on two earlier voyages of discovery. Cook was killed on his third voyage and, on this occasion, his fleet failed to circumnavigate the Globe. Instead, they reversed course and took the long way home.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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Well I'm impressed.

There seems to be a marked absence of trophies and no follow up in the wake of the Magellan and Drake expeditions. It could be that Elizabethan diplomats, famous for their spy network, knew Spain couldn't call the bluff, the English were on at least speaking terms with the Ottoman Empire. All's fair in Spanish war.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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I am amazed and impressed.

One problem....

Neither Drake, Magellan or Magellans crew, made it round.

None of these circumnavigations happened.
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Hatty
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In: Berkshire
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None of these circumnavigations happened.

Exactly. The maps with their weird coastlines and blank areas seem to confirm the lack of knowledge, secrecy is not a plausible explanation.
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DPCrisp


In: Bedfordshire
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The Golden Hind is the Golden Horde.

I was intrigued... but you lost me here.

I don' believe this either: "She was originally known as the Pelican, but was renamed by Drake mid-voyage in 1578, as he prepared to enter the Strait of Magellan, calling it the Golden Hind to compliment his patron, Sir Christopher Hatton, whose armorial crest was a golden 'hind'."

What does strike me is that the hind, whose golden antlers personified the sunrise before being chased by Heracles for a whole year to the very western edge of the world, would be a suitable namesake for a ship that just about made it to the other side of the world.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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DPCrisp wrote:
The Golden Hind is the Golden Horde.

I was intrigued... but you lost me here.


That is but one small point of surmise-ation on my part. Mostly what I have done is catalogue anomalies. However, should other evidence link western Canada with the "Golden Horde" then my surmizing may look more plausible.

There are more anomalies to come.

What does strike me is that the hind, whose golden antlers personified the sunrise before being chased by Heracles for a whole year to the very western edge of the world, would be a suitable namesake for a ship that just about made it to the other side of the world.


And perhaps this was what those old historians imagined too -- when they interpreted the written word "Horde as being Hinde. They would not have done so irrationally. They were probably more aware of the myths than we are.

My surmizings may prove wrong, concerning the significance of the name of Drake's ship, but considering everything else of which I am aware, the congruency of the two phrases could hardly be thought anything other than significant. But--as you would have it--perhaps it is a coincidence. We've had those before I think. Though some are skeptical.

As for the stuff about coats of arms -- I've got some things to say about coats of arms from the era coming up.

I maintain that it is more than odd that all of the several ships with which Drake set forth would sink or turn back while yet merely crossing the Atlantic--all save one--which happpened to be Drake's flag ship--and that even this one ship would not pass into the eastern seas under the same name under which it set sail.

By name, it would appear that none of Drake's ships entered the Pacific.

I think that worthy of attention. Though I surmize, you do not.
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Wile E. Coyote wrote:
Neither Drake, Magellan or Magellans crew, made it round. None of these circumnavigations happened.


Do you have evidence or reasons for this claim other than what I have explicitely presented here?
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Ishmael wrote:

Do you have evidence or reasons for this claim other than what I have explicitely presented here?


Yep.

I think I have stumbled on something interesting about the Pacific Ocean.

The so called "peaceful ocean" .....

Would take me a long time to explain the maps, will come back to it, if you haven't got in first...
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Well I'd like to know what you have. Don't wait too long to post it.

I'll continue my report ASAP.
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Wile E. Coyote


In: Arizona
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Wile dont do water.

But he cant help wundrin.....

Why after Magellan's voyage for more than two hundred years, mapmakers. globemakers and navigators would make the South Sea the common label for the waters west of the Americas.

Just asking......

BTW is the Pacific really a peaceful ocean?
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Ishmael


In: Toronto
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Well. What's your hypothesis?
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